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It is to become and electrician these days, so many people call themselves electricians and don’t even know how to lift a floor board. The scams have ALOT to answer for allowing such people into the industry.

Very true ............ a broad knowledge of all types of construction methods plus a broad understanding of all the other trades and all the building regs is required ........... not things you can learn overnight

I was in a builders "team" meeting today and he asked who had read any of the building regs in the last 12 months - I was the only 1 to put up my hand - the most recent one I read was about the changes to heating systems ..........
 
Very true ............ a broad knowledge of all types of construction methods plus a broad understanding of all the other trades and all the building regs is required ........... not things you can learn overnight

I was in a builders "team" meeting today and he asked who had read any of the building regs in the last 12 months - I was the only 1 to put up my hand - the most recent one I read was about the changes to heating systems ..........
SWOT !.
 
From the forum side of things it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't thing. Allowing DIY'ers to use the forum keeps the place interesting and diverse; it can get a bit stagnent when it's only acomplished professionals posting on a forum. We try to strike a happy medium by not allowing step by step guides and closing threads that are reported as people attempting things that are sounding unsafe. Assisting DIY'ers is also entirely voluntary and not incentivised as such by the forum.

Also I've learned over the years that some of the most lame opening posts can surprisingly turn into some of the most informative and well debated threads.

As for stopping retailers, I think the internet makes that a moot point, in fact it maybe better to have them purchase at a local retailer that's bound by law to sell stuff that's fit for purpose rather than driving them towards the cheap tat on EBay.
 
I think part of the problem is the information they give on the packaging for these products. So for example, 6mm t+e, its printed on the front (suitable for shower/cooker)..,.,.any non electrician would not need this bit of information as they know how to design a circuit. A DIYer finds this information as a green pass to have a go. "Well if BnQ have listed as good enough for my shower and they also sell a MCB to suit then it's fine"

I think I Australia it's illegal to undertake electrical work if your not an electrician. I'd love that to be the case here but its not going to happen
 
Very true ............ a broad knowledge of all types of construction methods plus a broad understanding of all the other trades and all the building regs is required ........... not things you can learn overnight

I was in a builders "team" meeting today and he asked who had read any of the building regs in the last 12 months - I was the only 1 to put up my hand - the most recent one I read was about the changes to heating systems ..........
Teachers Pet
 
Having worked in the holiday leisure industry, there are a few gas related things that crop up.
For lpg, engineers need to be Gas Safe first, then specialise in lpg before working on the pipe work..... but anyone can buy an lpg bbq or caravan and purchase gas bottles, connect them, work on the hoses and fit regulators.

I was told by a Gas Safe engineer that I couldn’t change a gas cylinder for a customer if there was only one cylinder or if there was no gas at all. It was seen as interrupting the supply and introducing gas back into the system.
We were allowed to change cylinders if there was 2 or more in an automatic changeover valve. The gas supply wasn’t being interrupted as the spare had taken over.

I think part of it is the presumed danger. A cock up with electrics is dangerous to the family in a house..... A faulty gas installation could be dangerous to several neighbours property’s as well.
 
Nice to see a "balanced" thread on this topic...some for, some against.
I'm DIY, as you will know, but have renovated a number of properties and it is true that you need knowledge, built up over time, of other trades' work. However, the number of bodged installations of simple electrical stuff and also plumbing stuff is incredible. Why, oh why, do wet pants not tighten things? Why do they install in an empty property then go home, leaving the water on? Why do they install gate valves (UGH!) ostensibly so you can isolate the supply to, say, a bath, but place them out of reach? So, my point is that at my age I have some experience...the most important factor of which is knowing when a job is outwith my capability. I can swap like for like, but if that unearths (no pun intended) a problem, it's time to get someone in. Thus, I consider myself a reasonably competent DIY bloke, but anything I don't know, I get someone who does. I just love learning, I guess, and the advice on here has highlighted how little I know many times, and I am happy to accept that advice.
However, apart from gas boilers, how difficult is it to join some pipes together? Not! But with push-fit, everyone's a plumber, these days. Maybe it's the same with electrics? Push-fits, Wagos, all of these are meant to make life easier, faster, cheaper...but only if the installer knows what he/she is doing. I've got little or no time for "builders" or plumbers...been stung too often...that's why I DIY...but you electricians? Well, that's a whole different class, and rightly so.
My most exciting thing this week was a text from Mrs Pirate to say my buckle-clips had arrived! Almost can't wait to get back to UK to use them...almost! But looking forward to them anyway, so how sad is that? LOL!
 
Whow sad is that? LOL!

Very ;o))))

I do my own electrics, I do plumbing with solder joints and can clear an airlock in a gravity fed system, some chippy work, sh!te at plastering though and have errrrr dabbled with gas pipe work and have repaired my own boilers....... I also work on cars and bikes......... and I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay............
 
and he hangs around in bars,
 
Try and buy anything to do with gas and you get escorted out of the big orange stores I tried to buy a cooker hose and refused because I wasn’t gas safe how sad is that but I could buy a new consumer unit with not an eyebrow lifted
 
I mean what DIY'er needs a 50m drum of cable?

to allow for the 4 x 10m lengths he's cocked up.
The guy who goes to a wholesaler for a ten-metre length and discovers that 10 metres plus 'cutting' charge is only slightly less than a 50-metre reel.

Anyone want 25 metres of 6mm T&E?
 
There is another slant on this topic. I have had a new kitchen installed by one of the big chains. They do have qualified electrical and gas fitters.

As part of the major refit I wanted a few (about 6 doubles) additional sockets and obviously I wanted these to match the ones already fitted that would remain. I was quoted for the additional work but when the team leader (the electrician) turned up it became apparent that he had expected me (without telling me) to identify the fittings and to have obtained them all myself. He would only supply white sockets. He wanted them all to be available the next day! If only he had told me several weeks beforehand!

As it happens I am sufficiently familiar with electrical wiring to be able to make a good guess as to the manufacturer and range and I had to order them on-line as the DIY stores did not appear to stock all the matching parts I needed and local stockists did not list what they stocked. I was able to get them all from Amazon very quickly (but they was a problem with the delivery but that is another story...). They are all now fitted and I have all of the necessary certificates and Building Control have been notified about the new circuits.

The point is that if I had not been able to identify and buy the electrical fittings (power sockets and light switches) I would not have been able to have matching sockets and the appearance of the new (expensive) kitchen would have been compromised.

I still have my own service company (computer services - it is being closed down at the moment as I have recently retired) and trade suppliers would almost certainly have opened a trade account if necessary. I believe my degree (Electrical Engineering in 1963) was sufficient qualification at one time to do electrical work (although I never have other than minor replacements of broken sockets) and I have a very good understanding of electrical safety hazards (although I am only familiar with the regulations up to the 16 edition) as I have been designing large computer systems for 55 years.

Is it typical for an electrician to expect the customer to identify and source their own power sockets, light switches etc? Most people would not have known where to start looking and if there was a ban on buying such components as a private individual I would have had a serious problem.
 
There is another slant on this topic. I have had a new kitchen installed by one of the big chains. They do have qualified electrical and gas fitters.

As part of the major refit I wanted a few (about 6 doubles) additional sockets and obviously I wanted these to match the ones already fitted that would remain. I was quoted for the additional work but when the team leader (the electrician) turned up it became apparent that he had expected me (without telling me) to identify the fittings and to have obtained them all myself. He would only supply white sockets. He wanted them all to be available the next day! If only he had told me several weeks beforehand!

As it happens I am sufficiently familiar with electrical wiring to be able to make a good guess as to the manufacturer and range and I had to order them on-line as the DIY stores did not appear to stock all the matching parts I needed and local stockists did not list what they stocked. I was able to get them all from Amazon very quickly (but they was a problem with the delivery but that is another story...). They are all now fitted and I have all of the necessary certificates and Building Control have been notified about the new circuits.

The point is that if I had not been able to identify and buy the electrical fittings (power sockets and light switches) I would not have been able to have matching sockets and the appearance of the new (expensive) kitchen would have been compromised.

I still have my own service company (computer services - it is being closed down at the moment as I have recently retired) and trade suppliers would almost certainly have opened a trade account if necessary. I believe my degree (Electrical Engineering in 1963) was sufficient qualification at one time to do electrical work (although I never have other than minor replacements of broken sockets) and I have a very good understanding of electrical safety hazards (although I am only familiar with the regulations up to the 16 edition) as I have been designing large computer systems for 55 years.

Is it typical for an electrician to expect the customer to identify and source their own power sockets, light switches etc? Most people would not have known where to start looking and if there was a ban on buying such components as a private individual I would have had a serious problem.
The electrician would more than likely to have been told by the Surveyor that you wanted the extra sockets, and not explained that you were willing to pay for a specific model, me I would take issue with the Surveyor for not passing on this info, out of interest was it the Big Orange shed who installed your kitchen?
 
The installer is self employed but was provided by the "shed" (no it wasn't the Orange one) to do both the survey and the installation.

The basic kitchen installation cost was included in the original quotation but additional work (like sockets and lighting wiring) was extra and paid directly to him. I specified to the installer how many additional sockets I required and where I wanted them. He quoted me for all the additional installation work including all of the additional power sockets and two new circuits for the ovens. I paid the installer directly for most of the additional items (not just wiring).

The installer is registered for both gas and electrical work and did all of the electrical installation work himself. He had other members of his team that did much of the rest of the installation.
 
The installer is self employed but was provided by the "shed" (no it wasn't the Orange one) to do both the survey and the installation.

The basic kitchen installation cost was included in the original quotation but additional work (like sockets and lighting wiring) was extra and paid directly to him. I specified to the installer how many additional sockets I required and where I wanted them. He quoted me for all the additional installation work including all of the additional power sockets and two new circuits for the ovens. I paid the installer directly for most of the additional items (not just wiring).

The installer is registered for both gas and electrical work and did all of the electrical installation work himself. He had other members of his team that did much of the rest of the installation.
What sort of certification did this installer leave you when he finished testing the installation?
 

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