Down lights install to lighting with no earth

[Dave1982]

Is it non compliant to install 240 V downlights to a lighting circuit with no earth when no earth connection is required at the downlight. A client is having his ceiling lowered and wants spots fitting which would be fire rated. Any advice appreciated. thanks

 

[brizospark]

the regs state that a cpc should be provided at every accessory even if the accessory does not require a cpc

So you would be best to put the cpc in a wago / connector if your 230v downlights are double insulated

 

[telectrix]

the regs state that a cpc should be provided at every accessory even if the accessory does not require a cpc

So you would be best to put the cpc in a wago / connector if your 230v downlights are double insulated

he ain't got a cpc in the cct. generally it is permissible to fit class II fittings to a circuit with no cpc, but it's debatable if you can do this as you are modifying the cct. and should add a cpc, even if you use a single core green/yellow.

 

[Darkwood]

the regs state that a cpc should be provided at every accessory even if the accessory does not require a cpc

So you would be best to put the cpc in a wago / connector if your 230v downlights are double insulated

Think you misread his post, he has no earth in the lighting circuit and wonders if its ok install double insulated downlighters which dont require an earth anyway.

 

[Darkwood]

Think you misread his post, he has no earth in the lighting circuit and wonders if its ok install double insulated downlighters which dont require an earth anyway.

Bugger Telectrix beat me :svengo:

 

[brizospark]

apologies for misreading. As you are modifying the circuit you would be required to ensure that the existing luminaires in the circuit have a cpc if they require so

 

[telectrix]

but if the luminaires are class II, does he need to install a cpc? i'm on the fence on this one.

 

[brizospark]

telectrix i reckon morally he does. Even if the luminaires are class II he is modifying a circuit which does not have a cpc. Unless all fittings in circuit are class II (which is highly unlikely). If someone gets the 230 tango off of a fitting which aint earthed and they find out that this spark worked on the circuit last week questions will be asked. Also, if the circuit in question contains bathroom lighting you will have to ensure there is RCD protection for the circuit.

 

[telectrix]

i would be inclined to agree with that. some silly sod might come along and fit metal fittings/switches. a bugger if the customer won't pay though , and you have to walk away.

 

[brizospark]

very true sometimes you have to weigh up do i do the job or walk away but always better to cover your archie and run a green and yellow ane

 

[Octopus]

If I remember correctly there is no ruling that says an older "lighting circuit" must be changed to include a CPC. In which case your only option is to recommend and fit class 2 fittings, and add one of those nice labels stating "no CPC in lighting circuit" to the CU.

I'm guessing that this isn't in a bathroom.

Tin hat on!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Would it not be prudent though to provide a means of earthing (for future change of luminaire)..?.............

 

[Octopus]

Would it not be prudent though to provide a means of earthing (for future change of luminaire)..?.............

Yes, if practical, if it doesn't mean ripping the house apart and the homeowner is willing to pay!

 

[Dave1982]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Think I will advise a higher price for a safe install...and to be honest I would have installed an earth if in doubt. Which was the case. thank again.

 

[Darkwood]

The way i see it is on the same theme as murdoch, if you are making alteration or additions to the circuit then your required to ensure the circuit is safe, this does not imply that you have to run an earth or rewire it, if you can confirm all fitting and switches are double insulated and dont require earthing then you can do the additions to the circuit. With exception of as mentioned before the bathroom as it has its own 'special' location reg's.
As part of the job the appropriate warning lables need to be fitted by or on the consumer unit addressing the lack of earth in the lighting. This way you havent left the lighting unsafe, the next engineer will have warning and the owner will have been told of the situe, having been such a nice sparkie when they muster some spare cash you may get the job yourself.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The circuit will also have to have RCD protection, and the departure will have to be recorded on the Certificate.

 

[lofty84]

whats cct

 

[GLENNSPARK]

The circuit will also have to have RCD protection, and the departure will have to be recorded on the Certificate.

But if the circuit has no cpc...and thus no earth path....what use is an RCD on it?

 

[telectrix]

circuit

 

[telectrix]

But if the circuit has no cpc...and thus no earth path....what use is an RCD on it?

the RCD wills ee an earth path if you get hold of a line conductor or there is another earth path.