Green deal in the press.

[SolarRoofSols]

Just interested to see whether those that have registered as advisers/assessors are fully geared up for GD? I remember a while back someone said that they still had not seen the software to input the assessments yet - has this been resolved yet?

 

[mdovey]

I can't help wondering if the Green Deal is intended to be a failure - given all the soft launches and other problems.

It was always going to be a hard sell - the government has been beating the drum that the austerity measures were the fault of careless lending and excessive borrowing. People are generally trying to pay off their debts rather than taking on new ones. Despite the fancy packaging the Green Deal is basically a long term loan, at a time when people are trying to reduce their debts.


Paying back via energy bills is just window dressing, adding additional bureaucracy and middle men who want their cut. The "golden rule" is just a little too much like previous "too good to be true" financial schemes, at a time when endowment, PPI, and other mis-selling schemes have reduced trust in such financial instruments to an all time low.

Linking the load to the house rather than the individual may have seemed at first glance like a good idea for those not certain whether they would stay in the house long enough to see the payback. However, this just adds to the concerns - would you be able to sell a house with loans attached? In practice, the seller would either need to pay of the loan earlier, or the seller might insist on paying a reduced price to take into account the outstanding loan. Either way, the seller ends no better off then if the loan was a personal one. If anything it pushes up the cost of buying and selling houses (yet another task for the surveyor) at a time when the housing market is in an all time slump!

And then despite all that, the loan rates turn out to be worse than existing commercial loans. Anyone wishing to undertake such energy measures would be far better off in extending their mortgage - both in terms of the interest rate, and early repayment charges.

Or have I missed something?

Matthew

 

[Elmer BeFuddled]

There was a piece on GD BBC Breakfast this a.m. First I'd heard of it in the media (as I've given up on papers!).

Basically "say you buy a boiler for £2k. Pay back at £20pcm. Your £60 pcm fuel bill would "reduce" to £40pcm thus you're still paying £60pcm fuel bill/loan. Real benefits kick in as fuel prices rise. The "loan" is attached to the property, not the person, so if you move..."

I think that's what they were saying, I was still yawning.

 

[grantr37]

you call 6.9% " eye-watering"? . my bank have just offered me a personal loan at 26.9%. no that's a rip off. if i ever saw one.

I think what the problem is will be getting charged £11,000 for some Glass wool in your loft or £55,000 for some solar panels then getting your electricity bills put up by a big % for the rest of your life to pay for it......wonder how many people will get nothing done and get charged money for it....


The Banks will have a keen investment interest in this no doubt, as will foreign owned electricity companies...


On a lighter note, SSE just put 12 wind turbines up behind my mothers house and E.on have just made public on a scheme that they have won permission for for up to 50 odd turbines......got a "welcome to our wonderful job creating innocent perfect great for the scenery" (aka local farmers pocket with big rent) scheme....


we got told 12 and that's it and within 8 days of the so called "commissioning" by siemens....another "scheme" announced....foreign companies making sure they ruin the UK for tourists and TV.....


OUT OF THE EU, FOREIGN COMPANIES OUT!

 

[grantr37]

I have seen large wind turbines springing up on farms in 2's and 3's right next to the main roads and villages.....and I bet we are paying for them with free subsidies that only farmers get for millions of pounds......farmers get paid "subsidies" of hundreds of thousands of pounds a year for nothing.....they should be allowed to go bust if they can't manage a farm properly.....nobody else in this country gets that kind of money for free....

 

[Gavin A]

it's pretty nuts that the only way GD makes sense is via the cashback scheme, when GD was supposed to be replacing the existing grants schemes.

Why is it that only those who take out an extortionate loan are now entitled to a grant towards their energy saving installation?

 

[grantr37]

Who do you bank with, Pounds to pocket...[/QUOT


nope. RBS. their idea of replacing overdraft. trouble is, it's a far higher rate than the O/D. bloody numpties.

I was going to say it sounds like quick skid or whatever it was called....

 

[grantr37]

Just done A GDR

£750 cash back
Eco funding

the customer eyes will be watering with happiness ....

I bet your local car dealers eyes will be watering too, and your bank managers ;(

 

[mdovey]

it's pretty nuts that the only way GD makes sense is via the cashback scheme, when GD was supposed to be replacing the existing grants schemes.

Why is it that only those who take out an extortionate loan are now entitled to a grant towards their energy saving installation?

7% interest plus setup fee plus annual fee - someone will be making a profit (presumably private sector rather than public sector).

However, where does the cost of the cashback scheme come from - the profits of the financial companies or the tax payer?

Matthew

 

[grantr37]

And here is another slant on the Green Deal................Have a look on the interent and in the Home Improvement sections of the newspapers at the number of companies that have suddenly appeared with Green Deal in their name....for them its like Solar all over again.

Its a simple marketing opportunity with the backing of the government. They can let the UK Government market and publicise the campaign...then they can piggy back on the legitimacy of the scheme.....while at the same time completely miss-selling a whole range of Green Deal products.....and will use their own in house fiance instead of Green Deal finance....

Take windows and doors for example. They will never ever make the Golden Rule. So why are Anglian, SaveHeat, Cold Seal ect ect all running adverts for windows under the Green Deal banner....

Simple. Becuase they can use the legitimacy of the scheme to sell windows....financed not by Green Deal but by their own finance...

And exactly the same will happen with the larger solar companies....They will use the Green Deal banner .....to sell solar. As both solar and windows will appear on Energy Performance Certs as recommendations...but with Organge NOT Green ticks...so where will the shortfall come from....Inhouse finance of course...

Watch this space.....

Bait and Switch

 

[TedM]

7% interest plus setup fee plus annual fee - someone will be making a profit (presumably private sector rather than public sector).

However, where does the cost of the cashback scheme come from - the profits of the financial companies or the tax payer?

Matthew

AFAIK the cashback is funded directly by DECC, so it is all coming from the taxpayer. £40 million guaranteed, plus maybe more after all that is gone, from an overall launch incentive budget of £200 million.

The actual cashback amounts are only guaranteed for the early customers and the rates on offer may drop if take-up is high.

 

[mdovey]

OK, so the tax payer pays for incentives to encourage people to take out loans from which the private financial sector benefits due to the lucrative rates, and high early payment penalty charges.

So we've basically moved from DECC subsidising the eco industry to DECC subsidising the financial industry?

 

[Gavin A]

that pretty much sums it up.

Along the way some energy reductions should occur to help meet government targets, but those repaying Green Deal loans are unlikely to benefit much from this until the loan is paid off, unless energy prices rise pretty steeply (which tbf they are going to).

 

[SRE]

Just seen Barking in an interview with BBC telling them you can get a front door on GD - You can't blame double glazing firms when that muppet is doing it himself!

I never thought I'd see the day when I'd stick up for double glazing firms

 

[whinmoor]

This paragraph sums it up nicely:

"Here are some of the hoops needed to be jumped: to enter the scheme, you need a green-deal assessor who works for a green-deal adviser organisation to undertake a green-deal assessment of your house, which will result in a green-deal advisory report. This will be lodged with a green-deal provider who will devise a green-deal plan. The work will then be undertaken by a green-deal installer to standards overseen by the new green-deal oversight body."

Simple, isn't it?

The green deal is just for fatcats, not consumers | John Vidal | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

[Vegelen]

Excerpts From Whinmoor's Excellent identified article:

"Behind the cosy language of reducing bills, keeping granny warm and helping the poor a massive bureaucracy has been erected, whose effect will be to keep out ordinary tradesman, co-ops and small renewable-energy companies. We are told this is to protect homeowners from sharks and cowboy builders, but it seems designed to ensure only large installation and energy companies profit from the anticipated market.".

"The green deal promises the opposite. We are being encouraged to borrow more money at well over the mortgage interest rate to help the banks profit more. The energy and climate mess we are in has been created by governments and energy companies encouraging profligacy and ignoring energy saving for years. We are now being asked to pick up the bill."

So "the Green Spiel" is bureaucratic, lends money at exhorbitant interest rates and is designed to benefit large companies / finance institutions in preference to the customer / excellent independent tradesman on this forum.
It is a big thumbs down for me.....:uhoh2: :nuke:

 

[JulianC]

You know what? F*** it. Good luck to all those persevering with this sham of a Mean Deal but I really cannot be bothered jumping through a load of hoops to get on board a scheme that does next to nothing to benefit the homeowner. Debt is debt, whichever way you dress it up. Interest rates are ludicrous and the fundamental flaws in the scheme, which have been highlighted since day one, still appear to be there. Golder Rule my arse. The greater the divide between the work I do and the ball brained schemes of our dear government, the happier I will be.

 

[sedgy34]

This paragraph sums it up nicely:

"Here are some of the hoops needed to be jumped: to enter the scheme, you need a green-deal assessor who works for a green-deal adviser organisation to undertake a green-deal assessment of your house, which will result in a green-deal advisory report. This will be lodged with a green-deal provider who will devise a green-deal plan. The work will then be undertaken by a green-deal installer to standards overseen by the new green-deal oversight body."

Simple, isn't it?

The green deal is just for fatcats, not consumers | John Vidal | Comment is free | The Guardian

We are GD installers and assessors, we are going the ECO route first maybe GD customers will come to us themselves

 

[finchy]

Good Thread, I just hope that someone wakes up in the government, they seem to be driving into a train crash !

The biggest Question is how does a new 2K boiler save £20 (1/3 of total energy bill) a month (the example used on the BBC) and how long will it take to pay off. Whats the average life of a boiler before they either fail or become inefficient. Its all to hypothetical.

 

[sedgy34]

Hmmm few developments today! Oh yeh that green deal started didn't it. Lol