Discuss I want compensation! in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

Y

yassy

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I had an electrician come round to do the downlights and the fusebox in my flat. The guy took sometime to finally do the job and when he did, we realised a few things,

He did not have the right tools to drill the holes for the downlights and therefore, we have holes showing where all the 8x downlights were fitted.

He fitted the fusebox but did not attempt to label them.

When I got up to the loft which is on top of the frontroom, I realised, he's lifted the floorboards and the insulation and did not bother placing them back in place!

Am I right to ask for compensation for his tardiness and lack of professionalism? Afterall we paid him almost £1000 for this job in London. I may not be an electrician but he must have breached the health and safety laws when I could not even get into my loft!
 
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R

randyrat

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
Sorry to have to be the one to break this to you, Yassy....but it looks like you've been a victim of a rogue trader. I'll bet he hasnt left any kind of installation or test certification either....you won't believe how often this kind of rubbish goes on. Its notifiable work also...but I dont suppose you've seen anyone from building control either....as far as compensation goes....I doubt your electrician has any insurance to cover this kind of shoddy work, so it would be a waste of your time and money trying to chase him for it.
Bad luck....always try and use someone with a bit of history...a recommendation from friends etc. There are A LOT of cowboys out there.
(Oh, and just to make your Christmas....Heaven forbid, if your house burns down and it is discovered that this install has been fitted not in accordance with regs, without building control approval, and (probably) without any statutory testing and certification......your insurance WILL NOT PAY OUT)
If I were you, I would get a good firm in to check his work and put it right.
 

ian.settle1

-
Mentor
Arms
I had an electrician come round to do the downlights and the fusebox in my flat. The guy took sometime to finally do the job and when he did, we realised a few things,

He did not have the right tools to drill the holes for the downlights and therefore, we have holes showing where all the 8x downlights were fitted.

He fitted the fusebox but did not attempt to label them.

When I got up to the loft which is on top of the frontroom, I realised, he's lifted the floorboards and the insulation and did not bother placing them back in place!

Am I right to ask for compensation for his tardiness and lack of professionalism? Afterall we paid him almost £1000 for this job in London. I may not be an electrician but he must have breached the health and safety laws when I could not even get into my loft!

Take photo's of the work/faults he has done in the first instant.

The second is the electrician you asked to do the work a registered company or is it someone doing it as a forgiener? in either case if he has changed your fuseboard then under Part P it is notifiable work to the LABC and EIC should have been issued. If not report him to the LABC.

If he is a registered company you could take him to the small claims court for compensation if he is no then don't know what can do.
 
M

montybaber

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Sorry to have to be the one to break this to you, Yassy....but it looks like you've been a victim of a rogue trader. I'll bet he hasnt left any kind of installation or test certification either....you won't believe how often this kind of rubbish goes on. Its notifiable work also...but I dont suppose you've seen anyone from building control either....as far as compensation goes....I doubt your electrician has any insurance to cover this kind of shoddy work, so it would be a waste of your time and money trying to chase him for it.
Bad luck....always try and use someone with a bit of history...a recommendation from friends etc. There are A LOT of cowboys out there.
(Oh, and just to make your Christmas....Heaven forbid, if your house burns down and it is discovered that this install has been fitted not in accordance with regs, without building control approval, and (probably) without any statutory testing and certification......your insurance WILL NOT PAY OUT)

If I were you, I would get a good firm in to check his work and put it right.
do you not think that may be jumping the gun a little, we do not yet know if the electrician is a rogue trader, he may have left certification he may have self-certified and he may be insured.

in one post you have burned the customers house down and told him his insurance is void, this may not be the case (could be)

i'm not condoning his actions, leaving visible gaps around the downlights is bad workmanship, did you not mention this to him?

He may have left the boards and insulation for a reason, I wouldnt enclose downlighters in insulation and floorboards or you just may be having a visit from the brigade after all. remember all connections to transformers and screw terminals (joint boxes etc) will require accessibility (if they were used) I agree it should have been explained to you.

Why not speak to him? probably what i would have done before paying a bag of sand and then posting about compensation on a forum.
 
Y

yassy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Thank you all for the valuable comments. Perhaps I did miss a few points out.

When we saw the huges gaps around the downlights, we did mention them to him. He got annoyed and said ' Yeah I use some filler on it but don't expect them to be of decorating standard'.
Of course he did another **** job on this.
As far as I know, my husband did ensure he's certified. He has the following
'E.I.T.B, J.I. B, C&G 236A, B, C. Sixteen edition BS7671. ' I do not know what they are but I am sure my husband can make more sense of this.
With regards to speaking to him before going into this forum.. I did ring him up. He was most abrupt and ended my call claiming he's been driving and said he will only deal with my husband and not me. He could not answer me when I asked him how could he left my loft in such a state. He could have informed us why he left them as such if he knows of the hazard?
Since I do not know many electricians (who are not cowboys) I decided to give this forum a try and see if I could gain any useful information and advice as to how I should proceed with this.
I have kept images of the loft as I feel this is the main area which I feel is major. We only paid him what he had completed so far and not the rest as initially we wanted him to do the whole flat!

 
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M

montybaber

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
by the certs you have shown he certainly appears to be a qualified electrician (with the need of 17th lol), more important though is to ask whether he is part of a self certification scheme such as niceic or napit so that any certifiable works carried out does not need notifying to building control.

It may well be that he is so dont worry, his workmanship and attitude stinks so you are well within your rights to be annoyed, like has been said take lots of photos so you have evidence and get back in touch with him asking for it all to be put right and if this is not possible (lights) then a reduction in his fees should be sought (obviously if you are happy with this)

As for the loft if no agreement was made to make good any areas worked etc then im not sure how things will work out, like i mentioned he may feel that the insulation or boards cannot be replaced in which case this should have been mentioned to you and worked out prior to the works.

Most decent sparkies would leave the customer happy but im afraid there is exceptions, do you have certification etc for the works?
 
S

simopesh

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Let us see some pictures.
I’ve seen a few properties where owner wanted electric work worth say £5000 to be done for £1000. I always used to say to them that you can not by a Mercedes for a price of Lada! Often non electricians do not understand it and even get offended.
 
M

montybaber

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Let us see some pictures.
I’ve seen a few properties where owner wanted electric work worth say £5000 to be done for £1000. I always used to say to them that you can not by a Mercedes for a price of Lada! Often non electricians do not understand it and even get offended.
cu change and 8 downlights for a grand is'nt cheap though...is it:confused:
 
Y

yassy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Hi all, here are some images for the moment. My husband just found out he's slyly managed to let one of the downlights hang by sheer luck. We've found all the downlights were not fitted properly and now my husband had to do the filler work himself. Here's one of the pics... scroll left or right to view more..

22/12/2008 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 
M

montybaber

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
its obvious the lighting circuits are not rcd protected, its a bit late in the day to claim 'designed to 16th edition'

Those ceilings can be a nightmare to be fair

there is no way you can board the loft as it was, one for accessibility two for overheating
 
its obvious the lighting circuits are not rcd protected, its a bit late in the day to claim 'designed to 16th edition'

Those ceilings can be a nightmare to be fair

there is no way you can board the loft as it was, one for accessibility two for overheating
intumescent hoods might be an answer.I think i'd end up buying adjustable downlighters which are slightly bigger to cover up the gaps.But yes I agree,the place looks a mess in the loft.would only take a half an hour to sort out.Maybe as he was expecting to be rewiring the entire flat he purposely left the boards up for future access and was intending to reinstate things when the job was complete. But again if you wern't happy with the job why did you pay him?
 
S

Sparky_Ben

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
I think that is unacceptable myself even if he was planning on being called back to do a rewire he should have cleaned up I think
the wiring looks a mess in amongst all that insulation
 
W

WarrenG

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Its worse than unacceptable! :mad:

This guy is one of the reasons the general public have this misconception about electricians and being ripped off! :mad:

This guy is one of the reasons that I have to justify my work and costs to my potential customers! :mad:

This guy isn't a cowboy, he's a Texas Ranger! :mad:

Lets face it, the job is complete crap and it annoys me to think that this guy claims to be qualified, no mention of a certificate? has building control been notified? who knows? he's rude and he's messy! :mad:

Nothing like painting the perfect picture for all us legally registered legit paying sparks now is there? :(

Yassy do not let him get away with this:
  • ask him for a certificate for the work that he has carried out
  • ask him if he is registered with a government approved scheme
  • ask him if he has notified your local building control about the work
  • ask him about a guarantee / warranty for the work
If he is a member of a scheme take his registration number and tell him unless he sorts the work out you will report him to the scheme.

He may be a member of one of these schemes NICEIC, NAPIT, ECA, ELECSA.

If he isn't a member of a scheme then he should have contacted your local building control to register the work under Part P of the Building regulations.

Here is further information to give you a clearer picture aabout the notification process. You will find at the back of these details telephone numbers for the government approved electrical schemes.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/buildingworkleaflet.pdf

I hope this helps. Please let us know how you get on.

Warren
 
Y

yassy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Hi Warren.
Thanks for your reply. That was most informative. A formal letter of complain has been sent out to myworkman.co.uk. My husband and I are looking to contact Trading Standards and the the Local Authority. We are looking to get compensation from this electrician and will definitely report him and seek legal advise if needs be. Thanks for the great advise and showing me the right channels to go to and trust me, having worked with the building and construction industry closely, I have never EVER seen anything like this...
I shall keep you guys updated.


p.s: We will be contacting the Local Authority and Trading Standards. I have rung him and he wouldn't speak to me because he said I have no right to tell him about his faults. How annoying!! So a letter to him has been sent telling him we want the certificate by 8th Jan 09.
 
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S

simopesh

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
cu change and 8 downlights for a grand is'nt cheap though...is it:confused:
Of coerce not!
On the other hand I would be reluctant to take any sides. It is their word against the electrician. It is certainly a bad job by the looks of it.
 
S

sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
I dont know what to say, pretty impossible to come to a verdict from a few out of focus pictures and not knowing what state the place was in to start with.
I think it would be a good idea for all domestic sparks to take pictures of properties before starting any work in conjunction with the PIR. We live a world of sue or be sued these days, I am not saying this spark is any good, but it is difficult to take sides. Much domestic electrical work results in a mess been made, floorboards torn up etc, you know the score, but to what extent do electricians make good, I mean how many of you paint the wall the same colour or re-wallpaper when you have filled your chasings ? etc. Its upto the electrician to explain the disruption in clear terms and come to an agreement, some people are very housproud, ive even been asked to take my shoes off and i was only going to the cellar to look at the CU, i declined under health and safety reasons, lol.
Good luck and happy christmas to all!
 
S

simopesh

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
:)
I dont know what to say, pretty impossible to come to a verdict from a few out of focus pictures and not knowing what state the place was in to start with.
I think it would be a good idea for all domestic sparks to take pictures of properties before starting any work in conjunction with the PIR. We live a world of sue or be sued these days, I am not saying this spark is any good, but it is difficult to take sides. Much domestic electrical work results in a mess been made, floorboards torn up etc, you know the score, but to what extent do electricians make good, I mean how many of you paint the wall the same colour or re-wallpaper when you have filled your chasings ? etc. Its upto the electrician to explain the disruption in clear terms and come to an agreement, some people are very housproud, ive even been asked to take my shoes off and i was only going to the cellar to look at the CU, i declined under health and safety reasons, lol.
Good luck and happy christmas to all!
Absolutely!
 
Y

yassy

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
Thanks for the comments Simopesh and Sivoodoo. Just to be clear, I am not asking anyone in this forum to take sides :) I just need your advise and assurance that what my husband and I were left with was not common practice.We have emailed the electricians asking for the certificate and will let you all know of the outcome. Anyway,
Have a Great New Year to all!!
 

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