Thanks Pete. Looks like hard work!
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Please checkout the new poll we will be pushing hard, and want some good stories to come out of this
result are public - you can change your vote over time, which might genuinely be the case from time to time.
Search the forum,
I understand I certainly don't have to accept it but as I said he was recommended and his checkatrade is 9.99 % out of 94 reviews. It's just when he was explaining what it was he had to do ,I felt like that he was 'dressing it up ' and making out its very differcult to do but the job would take two days.
After he left he text me saying he'd forgotten to look at the fuse board and to send him a picture so he could price it up.
And in the back of my mind I had my suspicion that he was going to go for a new board.
Nail, hammer, head there Lee!
What happened was he said he'd email a quote by a certain day, it was,in my mind late in coming so I emailed saying that I'd be getting the lights as I've already the sockets and switches. ( I bought a lot of Chrome ones a couple of years back from screwfix when they were getting rid of end of line things ) he then said he'd knock £ 200 of off the quote. I then checked my spam folder and he'd had sent it when he said he would.
I feel though as if the main point is being omitted, the main point is that do I need a new fuseboard or is he trying it on by stating that I do need one because the new regs say that I do. As I've state,d wrongly or rightly ,I didn't think that downlighters needed RCD protection.
If I have to pay £200 for decent and safe materials I'll pay it.
I can't work out £1690 for two days work when surely a new fuseboard with the testing of the house afterwards would be the best part of a day.
Installing 14 downlights, a new CU with all the testing is more than 2 days IMHO
Get 2 more quotes ......
Assuming the contractor is supplying decent led down lights the quoted prices are very reasonable
It's one of these!
Gloy? If it's the stuff I'm thinking of, it had a red rubber top with a slit in it, which bunged up with dry glue.
I meant from constantly twisting the bleddy thing, blisters. Which I'm sure you knew.
I forgot what we were supposed to be making whilst in school, but having to stick bits of paper to a Jam Jar for what seemed an eternity
Lost long in my memory that word "Gloy",it sure was the devils glue
dont envy the old way of making holes in brickwork though, rather you than me lol
Nope. It just isn't possible to compete with these guys when you're fully-qualified and experienced and they are not. Their stupidity will beat you every time.
In my area we have quite a few of these guys. You tend to hear them discussing various problems and faults with each other in the wholesalers.
Some people just seem to wing it, others generally want to do a neat decent job but just lack that technical experience (that bit comes at the customers expense).
Thank God for RCDs
Discuss Is this a bit of a stitch-up in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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It was
Leesparkykent
Esteemed
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Looks about the right money to me if inc VAT.
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Being london that quote seems quite fair. But get more as a comparison. Do not get pimlico plumbers army of electricians in though they charge 95+ per hour. Plus materials on top.
Remember though buy cheap buy twice. Its a false economy buying shoddy cheap parts.
Remember though buy cheap buy twice. Its a false economy buying shoddy cheap parts.
Leesparkykent
Esteemed
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And the cheapest quote is normally that for a reason....when I quote domestic jobs I can normally suss the customer in a few minutes. I wouldn't entertain the customer buying the gear unless I gave them the list which included makes and models....again this would be madness as I would almost certainly be able to get it cheaper than the customer and any call backs that turned out to be component failure would be chargeable....where as if I had brought them I would honour it for a period of time. I normally tell the customer outright that I'm not the cheapest and not the most expensive if I can see they're just fishing for the cheapest quote...usually weeds them out! Customers that just want the cheapest quote without considering things like customer service, workmanship etc are not the type of customers I'm interested in.
The downlighters were
I take your point about my choice of words (stitch up) and thanks for the recommendations.
I understand I certainly don't have to accept it but as I said he was recommended and his checkatrade is 9.99 % out of 94 reviews. It's just when he was explaining what it was he had to do ,I felt like that he was 'dressing it up ' and making out its very differcult to do but the job would take two days.
After he left he text me saying he'd forgotten to look at the fuse board and to send him a picture so he could price it up.
And in the back of my mind I had my suspicion that he was going to go for a new board.
O
Octopus
^^ it's not in London, it's Hampshire - exactly where hasn't been disclosed.
As for Checkatrade, the points score is like skating, so ignore the first number.
As for Checkatrade, the points score is like skating, so ignore the first number.
The place that needs doing is near Portsmouth. I don't want to be paying London price's for Portsmouth. There's no CC and no parking. As for the materials I'm more than happy for a sparky to tell me which lights etc to get from screwfix, toolstation, wickes or whatever catalogue.
O
Octopus
What do you think you will achieve by getting the parts yourself?
If people do this to me I increase my hourly rate.
If people do this to me I increase my hourly rate.
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Nail, hammer, head there Lee!
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Another think to consider, if you buy the parts yourself and something goes faulty would you expect the electrician to come back and replace/swap these for free ?
Im happy to come out and replace something I've supplied and I always make clear to the customer.
The main issues I have with Screwfix type outlets and similar is their range. They buy thousands of stock at once so the prices are low.
We have had people buy a load of decorative plates only to find they can get a intermediate switch or SFS it then becomes the electrician issue when the customer asks you to spend your time trying to find something to match up.
People generally think a chrome socket cost £7:50 because that what Screwfix sales them at, but in reality they are double that at least.
Not necessary the customers fault but worth noting it's not always cost effective.
Im happy to come out and replace something I've supplied and I always make clear to the customer.
The main issues I have with Screwfix type outlets and similar is their range. They buy thousands of stock at once so the prices are low.
We have had people buy a load of decorative plates only to find they can get a intermediate switch or SFS it then becomes the electrician issue when the customer asks you to spend your time trying to find something to match up.
People generally think a chrome socket cost £7:50 because that what Screwfix sales them at, but in reality they are double that at least.
Not necessary the customers fault but worth noting it's not always cost effective.
I didn't say I'd be getting the parts myself until after he'd sent his quote.
What happened was he said he'd email a quote by a certain day, it was,in my mind late in coming so I emailed saying that I'd be getting the lights as I've already the sockets and switches. ( I bought a lot of Chrome ones a couple of years back from screwfix when they were getting rid of end of line things ) he then said he'd knock £ 200 of off the quote. I then checked my spam folder and he'd had sent it when he said he would.
I feel though as if the main point is being omitted, the main point is that do I need a new fuseboard or is he trying it on by stating that I do need one because the new regs say that I do. As I've state,d wrongly or rightly ,I didn't think that downlighters needed RCD protection.
If I have to pay £200 for decent and safe materials I'll pay it.
I can't work out £1690 for two days work when surely a new fuseboard with the testing of the house afterwards would be the best part of a day.
O
Octopus
Installing 14 downlights, a new CU with all the testing is more than 2 days IMHO
Get 2 more quotes ......
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Assuming the contractor is supplying decent led down lights the quoted prices are very reasonable
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Any wiring he deals with that is chased in will now need RCD protection.
The lighting circuit is not RCD protected.
Due to its age you probably can't get a RCBO to fit your board, so rather then having a second enclosure like the thing to the right of your existing board it would be neater to fit a new board that would incorporate all the electrics in your picture and also comply with other regulation changes.
I'm not saying we would quote on a new board, but I can see where he is coming from. (we would explain the above and let the client choose).
The lighting circuit is not RCD protected.
Due to its age you probably can't get a RCBO to fit your board, so rather then having a second enclosure like the thing to the right of your existing board it would be neater to fit a new board that would incorporate all the electrics in your picture and also comply with other regulation changes.
I'm not saying we would quote on a new board, but I can see where he is coming from. (we would explain the above and let the client choose).
Post #3, #24 and #38 explain why he might want to change the consumer unit. You are having more work done than just the downlighters. If he chases the lighting cables into the wall, as stated in the quote, then they have to be protected by an RCD and the easiest way to achieve this is to change the consumer unit.
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There has never been an rcbo to fit that board.
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Have a mate who is a plumber, he gets friends to post pretend jobs on the checkatrade type sites, he then gets shortlisted and pays his few pounds, friend pretends to give him the job and then leaves prepared feedback. I dont like his method as there are other plumbers paying lead fees too with no chance of getting the fake job. the ratings and feedback are not what they appear on them sites.
T
The Ghost
Maybe it's like you have an old Austin car and you want a turbo charged engine put in it. Maybe the mechanic says yes I can do that but you will have to upgrade your braking system and suspension to cope with the demands that the new system will put upon your old car. Do you trust him? or do you think he is just trying to make money out of you? Ok thats a slight exaggeration in order to illustrate a point.
T
The Ghost
Regards your point about downlighters have to have RCD protection the answer is no. And has it been pointed out by @westward10 they already seem to be protected by RCD so again no. If that is the justification then it is invalid.
If the job was down my way,the price would be less than half of your stated cost,but I live in a poor area where there is an abundance of tradesmen competing for work
In richer areas such as yours, the price will firstly reflect the cost of living and typical earnings for that locality, it will also reflect the availability of tradesmen where you live
In the end a price is what the tradesman thinks it is all worth
The customer has two choices,accept or decline,it really is that simple
If you don't think its value for money don't engage him
Trying to get a consensus about prices on a forum from people in often very different circumstances is useless at best and utter folly at worst
In richer areas such as yours, the price will firstly reflect the cost of living and typical earnings for that locality, it will also reflect the availability of tradesmen where you live
In the end a price is what the tradesman thinks it is all worth
The customer has two choices,accept or decline,it really is that simple
If you don't think its value for money don't engage him
Trying to get a consensus about prices on a forum from people in often very different circumstances is useless at best and utter folly at worst
There is other work on the quote involving chasing lighting cables into the walls, not just the downlighters. And from looking at the consumer unit in the picture there are two 6 amp mcbs not protected by the RCD. Presumably they are for the lighting circuits. I can't see where Westward10 suggested they were protected by the RCD.Regards your point about downlighters have to have RCD protection the answer is no. And has it been pointed out by@westward10 they already seem to be protected by RCD so again no. If that is the justification then it is invalid.
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I think this has got a bit confused, my original #3 assumed the cables to be buried were for the lighting so unless earthed containment was employed then additional rcd protection is required. In #26 the OP says the cables being buried are for the sockets and from the pic the socket circuits would appear to have additional rcd protection hence #27.
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I think its reasonable, I not going to pick holes in the guys quote I assume he a professional. I would probably explain my reasons but still quote for a DB upgrade.
If the customer gives me the impression that they want a cheap, quick job I would probably stick an extra £100 on too, just because in from experience these people make the job harder.
Wouldn't be too fussed if I got the job or not.
If the customer gives me the impression that they want a cheap, quick job I would probably stick an extra £100 on too, just because in from experience these people make the job harder.
Wouldn't be too fussed if I got the job or not.
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that's where experience comes in. the idea is to hit the chisel, not your hand.I can remember getting sore hands from them.
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Gloy? If it's the stuff I'm thinking of, it had a red rubber top with a slit in it, which bunged up with dry glue.
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I meant from constantly twisting the bleddy thing, blisters. Which I'm sure you knew.
T
Toneyz
As posted any cable chased in the wall would need to comply with the latest wiring regs for the lighting circuit switch drops practically would be protection by RCD/RCBO or earthed conduit.I see that a newer mcb has been fitted in the consumer unit I know that the original rcbo's used to take two ways space you have not got maybe a newer rcbo by Crabtree would fit.
I forgot what we were supposed to be making whilst in school, but having to stick bits of paper to a Jam Jar for what seemed an eternity
Lost long in my memory that word "Gloy",it sure was the devils glue
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It's odd what stuff you remember when you've not thought about it for decades.I forgot what we were supposed to be making whilst in school, but having to stick bits of paper to a Jam Jar for what seemed an eternity
Lost long in my memory that word "Gloy",it sure was the devils glue
H
hightower
This post here makes me very glad I don't need to deal with customers like yourself any longer. No wonder people say the domestic trade is on its a***. Prices seem reasonable to me, and his reviews are good and he came recommended - what more do you want.
As for failing to check the board, we do forget stuff you know. I went round my cousins to take a look at some nasty electrical work last week. I totally forgot to check the bonding until my second visit. Things slip our mind, at least he asked you for a photo instead of leaving it out.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for having a go myself at stuff. I wanted to fit my own car charge point the other week, until the folks on here said it was a bit more trouble than wiring up a standard socket. After seeing that it took me all of three seconds to decide to get somebody a little more qualified in that department in to do it. Customers, when choosing their own parts, don't realise half the headaches they create when the get sub-standard or incorrect parts. I can go get a Dacia for half the price of any other hatchback. Should I? Not according to my mechanic mate. Just because he said £200 for parts, doesn't mean he was going to make £150 on it.
As for failing to check the board, we do forget stuff you know. I went round my cousins to take a look at some nasty electrical work last week. I totally forgot to check the bonding until my second visit. Things slip our mind, at least he asked you for a photo instead of leaving it out.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for having a go myself at stuff. I wanted to fit my own car charge point the other week, until the folks on here said it was a bit more trouble than wiring up a standard socket. After seeing that it took me all of three seconds to decide to get somebody a little more qualified in that department in to do it. Customers, when choosing their own parts, don't realise half the headaches they create when the get sub-standard or incorrect parts. I can go get a Dacia for half the price of any other hatchback. Should I? Not according to my mechanic mate. Just because he said £200 for parts, doesn't mean he was going to make £150 on it.
E
elsparko
to be fair though back then it was just 2 sockets and a light fitting/switch in most rooms
dont envy the old way of making holes in brickwork though, rather you than me lol
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When you say the guy came recommended, in what way? I take good recommendations as quality considerate work done at a fair cost.
Other folk may expect something different "cheap job" maybe?
If he came recommended as being reliable and undertaking good workmanship then he is not going to be "cheap" you will/should get what you are paying for.
As per the quote, if you are not happy then get other quotes in as which has already been advised to you.
It would only be a "stitch up" if you paid the price and got rubbish in return.
Other folk may expect something different "cheap job" maybe?
If he came recommended as being reliable and undertaking good workmanship then he is not going to be "cheap" you will/should get what you are paying for.
As per the quote, if you are not happy then get other quotes in as which has already been advised to you.
It would only be a "stitch up" if you paid the price and got rubbish in return.
E
elsparko
not to mention the collecting of materials, sourcing materials, time invested in training, membership fees, cost of van etc
the bigger the workforce the greater the overhead costs will be
it cost me nearly 500 quid to have my immobiliser reset by a mechanic, it was in for 15 minutes, i look at it this way instead of my car being off the road for 2/3 days it was back on the road the same day, at a cost, this car had 19inch break discs though so not many mechs wanted the hassle of something they hadnt worked on before
the bigger the workforce the greater the overhead costs will be
it cost me nearly 500 quid to have my immobiliser reset by a mechanic, it was in for 15 minutes, i look at it this way instead of my car being off the road for 2/3 days it was back on the road the same day, at a cost, this car had 19inch break discs though so not many mechs wanted the hassle of something they hadnt worked on before
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I think the problem here is the lighting circuits are not RCD protected. There is no free slot to add or move the circuit to be RCD protected. Hence the need to change the board (which is pretty full). The lighting needs to be RCD protected for the new work, although it wasn’t (needed) when installed under previous regs. I think this is where the sparks is going. Another one might just add it to the unprotected existing mcb and it would be cheaper but wrong.
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I think the problem here is the lighting circuits are not RCD protected. There is no free slot to add or move the circuit to be RCD protected. Hence the need to change the board (which is pretty full). The lighting needs to be RCD protected for the new work, although it wasn’t (needed) when installed under previous regs. I think this is where the sparks is going. Another one might just add it to the unprotected existing mcb and it would be cheaper but wrong.
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Some customers are a complete and utter pain the arse who end-up just wasting your precious time. I was recently invited to quote for a job that consisted of carrying-out an EICR and installing smoke/heat alarms in a two-bedroom flat in Glasgow. I visited the property to assess the work and subsequently quoted the customer £125.00 for the EICR and £335.00 for the alarms, both of which I consider to be reasonable, competitive prices.
The customer then tells me that my price for the EICR is "too much", and that they've already had a quotation from someone else for £70.00. She asked me if I would come down £55.00 on my price. I told her that there was absolutely no way that I could compete with such a ridiculously low pocket-money price nor would I even contemplate trying. Perhaps I should have just told her to proceed forth and simulate a sex act with herself.
The alarms that I quoted for were 2 x AICO ei141 and 1 x ei144, all three to be fitted with radio-link bases. A battery-operated CO alarm was also included within my quotation. The customer complained that this price was also "too much" as she already had a quotation for £200.00. At this point, I told her that I was no longer interested in taking-on this job and withdrew my quotation. I have better things to do with my free-time on a Saturday morning than waste an hour-and-a-half of it dealing with miserable, penny-pinching customers who want to hire you because you have a good reputation for quality workmanship, but who don't want to pay commensurate prices.
I wish Megger or Fluke would invent a PAT (Penny-pinching Awkward T**t) detector so I could scan the customer immediately upon meeting them and be able to walk away immediately after the detector has returned a FAIL outcome. I omit Kewtech because even if they were to actually invent such a detector, it probably wouldn't function correctly.
The customer then tells me that my price for the EICR is "too much", and that they've already had a quotation from someone else for £70.00. She asked me if I would come down £55.00 on my price. I told her that there was absolutely no way that I could compete with such a ridiculously low pocket-money price nor would I even contemplate trying. Perhaps I should have just told her to proceed forth and simulate a sex act with herself.
The alarms that I quoted for were 2 x AICO ei141 and 1 x ei144, all three to be fitted with radio-link bases. A battery-operated CO alarm was also included within my quotation. The customer complained that this price was also "too much" as she already had a quotation for £200.00. At this point, I told her that I was no longer interested in taking-on this job and withdrew my quotation. I have better things to do with my free-time on a Saturday morning than waste an hour-and-a-half of it dealing with miserable, penny-pinching customers who want to hire you because you have a good reputation for quality workmanship, but who don't want to pay commensurate prices.
I wish Megger or Fluke would invent a PAT (Penny-pinching Awkward T**t) detector so I could scan the customer immediately upon meeting them and be able to walk away immediately after the detector has returned a FAIL outcome. I omit Kewtech because even if they were to actually invent such a detector, it probably wouldn't function correctly.
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Wow £125 is pretty cheap for a Condition report.
We had a guy advertising in our local paper (about a year ago) charging £150 for a CCU change including upgrading of bonding and testing (he was a 5 week intensive graduate).
I got the pleasure of seeing one of his jobs recently, a heating engineer we work with got a shock disconnecting the Immersion. Mr fast track had got his ring wires crossed with the immersion circuit, amongst other things !
You can't compete with these people, you did the right thing by walking away, it would have annoyed me too !!
Sounds like the customer would have tried something to get money off anyway.
We had a guy advertising in our local paper (about a year ago) charging £150 for a CCU change including upgrading of bonding and testing (he was a 5 week intensive graduate).
I got the pleasure of seeing one of his jobs recently, a heating engineer we work with got a shock disconnecting the Immersion. Mr fast track had got his ring wires crossed with the immersion circuit, amongst other things !
You can't compete with these people, you did the right thing by walking away, it would have annoyed me too !!
Sounds like the customer would have tried something to get money off anyway.
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Like it "a 5 week intensive graduate" sounds good, but then?????? makes you wonder when the powers that be in our industry, will ever get the picture ot what is happening, still the brown envelope industry will flourish.
T
Toneyz
This intensive 5 weeks intensive learning may suit some that can take all the info in but I have to question how much is understood in applying in practice.I would say that for an experienced electrician who needed qualifications to join a cps scheme what is being taught would fall into place in the real world. Qualifications are one thing doing it is another.
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I agree. I would charge more if market conditions would so permit, but when you're trying to win work in direct competition with 20 year-old boys who are offering to do EICRs at stupid prices, and who aren't even competent or qualified to be carrying-out EICRs in the first place, then you need to keep your prices realistic otherwise you are going to lose jobs right, left and centre. The domestic market in the Glasgow are is absolutely saturated with such types. Indeed, I lost a local job only this week to someone based in Stirling who is prepared to travel 27 miles to install four sockets in a house in Glasgow for £110. FFS. How do you even begin to compete?
WTF? He must be charging an hourly rate of around £5 or £6 an hour.
I trust that he was reported to whoever you would report such matters to down south. These charlatans need to be identified, reported and, if at all possible, kicked-out of our trade. At the very least, they should be named and shamed. We all make mistakes, but had this clown done the job properly and tested the circuit prior to it being energised he would then have realised his mistake. He evidently didn't carry-out an RFC continuity test at the very least.
Nope. It just isn't possible to compete with these guys when you're fully-qualified and experienced and they are not. Their stupidity will beat you every time.
The old "I already have a cheaper quote" chestnut doesn't work with me. If the other guy's quote is so cheap, when why bother obtaining any more? I'm not budging. I submit my price, and that's the end of it. Take it or leave it.
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Yep this particular chap was a NICEIC Domestic Installer too.
In my area we have quite a few of these guys. You tend to hear them discussing various problems and faults with each other in the wholesalers.
Some people just seem to wing it, others generally want to do a neat decent job but just lack that technical experience (that bit comes at the customers expense).
Thank God for RCDs
Reply to Is this a bit of a stitch-up in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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