New career as electrician- advice needed please.

[Dovey]

Hello.

I am currently a serving member of the RAF. I am due to leave after 23 years service next year. I am an Aircraft engineer but have been around the building trade in one way or another all my life. I have aspirations to become an Electrician. Domestic/ commercial. I like the idea of solar panel installations too.

So, I have all the qualifications in the world relating to aircraft engineering, health and safety, risk assessment and management. What I really want to do is become a Sparky. My question is; where do i start, what qualifications do I need to become self sufficient in the field and how long will it take. I can do residential condensed courses and have access to over £6000 worth of education to use when I leave.

In addition, I will be seeking to do some gas/plumbing qualifications too.

all advice and guidance would be gratefully received.

Thanks.

 

[telectrix]

all i can say is that if you want to enter a market that is over saturated with unemployed , qualified sparks, then good luck.

 

[Dovey]

all i can say is that if you want to enter a market that is over saturated with unemployed , qualified sparks, then good luck.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[telectrix]

ifd anything, go for industrial, plc's etc. offshore, etc. theres no money in domestic work anymore.

 

[Smudge]

i left the army as a 'spark', (qualifications weren't recognised, had to do a full apprenticeship on the outside). I originally started as an aircraft technician, but failed my final 2 exams and was booted off the course. I still keep in touch with a few of the boys that passed the trade, and they are now working for a hell of a lot more than me. AND I MEAN A LOT!


What i'm possibly trying to say...if you are interested in electrical installations, site work, etc, and you're not bothered about the money, possible unemployment, then yes, go for it.


However, the oppertunity and money on offer as an aircraft engineer (i'm presuming its the same-ish as i was trying to be), helicopter mechanic to be short, is something that i wish i'd studied that little bit more for...


any road, good luck.

 

[TaffyDuck]

The first thing I would say is, as others will no doubt say, that be very wary of the fast courses that say they can train you to become a qualified electrician inside a month or so. As an engineer you will undoubtedly be aware that this is an impossibility. The claims that you can do a short course and walk straight into a £50k a year job is something that the advertising standards agency should look very closely at IMO. Short courses have their place providing add on qualifications to experienced sparkies but the truth is that what you need most at the beginning is experience, and so I would recommend trying to get a job as a mate for a year or two and in conjunction attend your local college and do 2330 etc. I`m not too sure if your retraining package would pay for this however.

What I would say is that with your engineering qualifications and experience you will have a major headstart and many employers will be interested in taking a punt as you sound, to me at least, to be a useful bloke.

We have loads of new businesses popping up around here, savagely undercutting each other, its sad really as experienced guys are struggling to get work at a rate that is reasonable, not a few quid an hour.

Its hard out here at the moment, there is no doubt about that and that is likely to be a bit of a shock to you when you do come out of the RAF.

 

[Guitarist]

Probably the hardest thing you will find on leaving the forces is that many many things in civvy street are not done by the book. Is your training mechanical or electrical/electronic?
If you have never worked as a sole-trader, it will be a real eye-opener for sure.

 

[Dovey]

Hi and thank you all for the info.

As I said, I have been around the building trade in one way or another all my life. I will benefit when leaving the RAF from a pension and gratuity. I have done the RAF for 23 years; it is time for a change! I intend to become a bit of an all rounder, a local handy man if you like with a preference more toward electrical work. I have experience in running a business too. I have life experience, can turn my hand to anything and if all else fails, I do have my engineering and management experience to fall back on.

Life in the Forces is very different from when I joined 23 years ago and certainly in the last 5 years. I am in my early 40's and need that change I speak of. I am not expecting an easy ride; that would be boring but a change is most definitely required.

I have spoken with my cousin who is an electrical contractor. I will work for him free of charge for a couple of months before I leave the RAF. He has plenty of work at the moment.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Engineer54]

Hello.

I am currently a serving member of the RAF. I am due to leave after 23 years service next year. I am an Aircraft engineer but have been around the building trade in one way or another all my life. I have aspirations to become an Electrician. Domestic/ commercial. I like the idea of solar panel installations too.

So, I have all the qualifications in the world relating to aircraft engineering, health and safety, risk assessment and management. What I really want to do is become a Sparky. My question is; where do i start, what qualifications do I need to become self sufficient in the field and how long will it take. I can do residential condensed courses and have access to over £6000 worth of education to use when I leave.

In addition, I will be seeking to do some gas/plumbing qualifications too.

all advice and guidance would be gratefully received.

Thanks.

Stick to Aircraft engineering, there is plenty of work overseas in this field and not badly paid work either!! Look towards the Middle and Far East especially at the growing new airline businesses... If you want to stick to the military side of things, the same area's of the world would still be your best bet in finding lucrative positions, depending on your qualifications and experience...

Don't whatever you do, let these training course centers convince you that there is a shortage of electricians and that it's an easy 5/7 week ride to becoming a qualified electrician, it ISN'T and you WON'T be qualified for anything in that time frame!! They are after your money, full stop!!! It's a complete and utter SCAM!!!

 

[Dovey]

I think the point is being missed. As an Aircraft engineering and Engineering manager; I am aware of the array of aircraft related positions I could apply for and take up globally and at home. After 23 years of living like that, I no longer wish to do it. Money is not my number one concern to be honest..quality of life is. I have my own home, I will have a pension and have have no aspirations to earn £100K a year. I just wish to make a reasonable wage on top of my pension. I intend to set up on my own once I have experience and the relevant qualifications.

The local handy man type situation is probably where I am heading. I have renovated houses, I can strip a car down in a blink of an eye and put it back together again, I am a risk assessor, Health and Safety qualified, a qualified instructor of a whole manner of things, I have qualifications in hardware and software engineering and of course..all the aircraft and management stuff. I know can apply for other jobs...I just do not want to be part of the 7 day a week target,target,target brigade anymore...there is more to life.

 

[Engineer54]

Depends then, if you have 3 years to spare while your training to become Qualified as an Electrician?? Or do you intend to be yet another chancer with a 5 week training course under your belt!! The choice is yours basically!!

 

[Dovey]

So. These providers, RF training for example, are they lying when they say you become qualified after 7 weeks? I am struggling to see ( apart from some relevant hands on experience, which I have secured) why becoming qualified on a fast track is any different from spending years going to college one day a week? If at the end of the course you have all the certificates and accreditation..how does it differ from the long route?

Thanks for the help.

 

[TaffyDuck]

Sorry double post

 

[TaffyDuck]

So. These providers, RF training for example, are they lying when they say you become qualified after 7 weeks? I am struggling to see ( apart from some relevant hands on experience, which I have secured) why becoming qualified on a fast track is any different from spending years going to college one day a week? If at the end of the course you have all the certificates and accreditation..how does it differ from the long route?

Thanks for the help.

Experience is the key here, you really need a year or two at least to be competent to do anything much without supervision. The fast track courses will not and can not give you this. By all means if your going it alone do the 5 week course but you wont really know very much afterwards. If your mate can give you a year or two on site you`ll be OK I`m sure. Being in the forces you`ll be well aware of The Wheel of Competence. After a five week course you`ll be in the Unconsciously Incompetent area, being a H&S expert you will be well aware of the ramifications to you or your customers from that.

 

[Des 56]

I wont reply to your last post because you may already have decided the route, and that decision may not be influenced by my own negative reply

I will however say that if you are financially secure and are looking for self employment that is both interesting and rewarding,then the handymen route may be more beneficial,start off basic and expand the role with time and experience,especially if as you say you are experienced in most building trade skills
Personally,if I were in your position,I would buy,renovate and sell upgraded properties,the variation of work would be great

Whether we like or not,domestic installation,both electrical and plumbing as a stand alone trade is on its way out
I am not condoning incompetent installation,but multi trade is the future, no doubt

There is nothing stopping you doing fast track electrical and plumbing courses and using that knowlege to do the handyman thing as a sole trader
The scope of the work is where the contention will lay

As long as the jobs are within your capabilities and you are not using customers to practice on, in order to gain the experience, then go for it,you have the money,you have the incentive and you have an highly respected skill to fall back on if needs be

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Dovey, welcome to the club mate. I was leaving, just as you went in "ish". I came out in '86, A Tech E, then went on to do JAR66 B2 Licence, before joining civvy airline. Been in and around electric for all my working life to some degree.

Do you still have a resettlement programme? My mates son left the Navy in January, he was multi skilled Sea King engineer. They paid for 17th edition, heating ventilation and aircon course, as well as Gas qualifications. He then walked into a job with a very large bakery as a maintenance engineer, mainly electrical.

Cheers..........Howard

PS I am now a lazy ****, and teach it these days.

 

[Dazed&confused]

I've just started as a trainee spark, mainly wiring new builds. There isn't alot of money to be made (luckily for me my girlfriend is doing alright :wink_smile but I enjoy the work.

I've been in college since September doing the EAL Level 2 diploma in electrical and electronic engineering. People would tell you to do the C&G level 2330, but it no longer exists for new starters!? The only course the college could offer was the EAL course. We were also told by the college the industry has recognised that there are too many sparks, and too many who went to college for 3 years without ever getting site experience before buying a van and going it alone.

This is why some boys on my course doing the Level 2 will not be able to go on to the level 3 unless they find themselves employment. They are making it harder to be qualified. Even though i'm on an apprenticeship after 3 years I still won't be qualified to NVQ level3, this is because they have changed it so that you have to be assessed in domestic, commercial and industrial. The company I work for only does domestic with 1 or 2 commercial jobs a year.

Spending 6 grand on a training provider might get you a job as an electricians mate, if your lucky. But you won't be seen as a qualified spark by employers or any other spark

 

[derbyspark]

I started my own business last yr and it's very very tough going, only now am i getting enough work to get by as a spark (mainly domestic and commercial), but i have diversified into fitting kitchens which is a lot more profitable and without this i would really struggle. Without doubt the days of making a living from just being a domestic spark have gone, so you have 2 choices. Retrain the fast way as a domestic spark( but get some experience) but do other trades as well or get the proper qualifications,experience and be able to do domestic,commercial and industrial (where the money is but i hate it)

Just look how many gas engineers, kitchen fitters have niceic domestic installer status stickers on there vans and other than the odd re-wire what other big work do people need a spark for in there homes?.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

So. These providers, RF training for example, are they lying when they say you become qualified after 7 weeks? I am struggling to see ( apart from some relevant hands on experience, which I have secured) why becoming qualified on a fast track is any different from spending years going to college one day a week? If at the end of the course you have all the certificates and accreditation..how does it differ from the long route?

Thanks for the help.

because on some of these short `courses` their idea of inspection and testing is doing a safe isolation....perhaps with the odd R1 R2 and IR test thrown in for good measure....and thats what i was told from a reliable source the other week....i mean you couldn`t make it up could you lolffs....how the hell are you going to be able to notify and cert if you cant even test...lol.lol....really.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

you know i have just re-read over this thread....and i cant understand peoples obsession with throwing good money at these `waste of 5 weeks of your time` courses.....its like watching lemmings or summat...lol....

 

[Engineer54]

So. These providers, RF training for example, are they lying when they say you become qualified after 7 weeks? I am struggling to see ( apart from some relevant hands on experience, which I have secured) why becoming qualified on a fast track is any different from spending years going to college one day a week? If at the end of the course you have all the certificates and accreditation..how does it differ from the long route?

Thanks for the help.

It's amazing isn't it, how everyone thinks an electricians work is so easy it can be learnt in 5 weeks!! Tell me, could i take in all that's required in being a Qualified aircraft technician in 5 weeks?? NO, i didn't think so, ...So what makes you think you can become a qualified electrician in 5weeks???

It differs from the long route as you call it, in just about every way possible. you won't have a core/foundation qualification, you will not have any supervised working experience, so you will not have the required NVQ/AM2 etc etc etc, to be able to call yourself a ''Qualified'' electrician !! Oh and if your talking about a couple to a few months helping a relative as all the experience you need , ...your going to be very much mistaken...

 

[Dovey]

LOL..Engineer54. Thanks. I seem to have stirred you a little. As I said, I have been around the building game all my life, have renovated and have transferable skills and experience. That said, I do not expect to be the experienced guru in 7 weeks but it is a start to my plans. Thanks.

 

[OllieNotts]

I wonder why they dont let ex army cadets in to the army or even air cadets in to the RAF and straight in to their trade jobs with a basic and then trade training? I mean, they have spent years as cadets learning the basics so why not let them on a 5 week course and then send them straight to regiment?
If you don't really see what is wrong with this route then you will just be another mug and never a spark. You don't seem very bright for someone so capable of such supposed intelligence. No offence intended, but seriously.....*smacks head against wall*

 

[D80]

If only we could all get a pension after 23 years of working, it would make new ventures much simpler:cool4:

 

[Dovey]

I was simply asking for some guidance and advice. Thanks to those who have provided just that. To those who seem offended, I apologise but, I think you need to read ALL of my posts before getting on your high horse. I do not think a 5 week course is sufficient to become fully competent. I was asking how the qualification system would differ..I am not a Mug, I am not thick, I am polite, I am educated and I was only asking a question.

I am very happy to be receiving a pension after 23 years. 5 years of those have been spent saddled up in **** holes, deserts, being shot at and away from home. It is small compensation for some of the life lost, but thanks for your concern and simplistic assessment.

 

[Engineer54]

We seem offended, (as you put it) because those of us that are fully qualified and experienced, are fed up with every Tom, Dick and Harry thinking that they can become qualified electricians in 5/ 6/ 7/ weeks!! There is a thread started here virtually every week, based on/or similar to yours. I have read all your posts on this thread, and your not too different from all the others, ...initially thinking it's a walk in the park to become a qualified electrician, just shell out a load of cash to these scam training centers and your sorted!!!

So my question is the same as before, are you willing to put in the time and energy to become properly qualified or are you going to be satisfied being at the very best semi skilled, but still prepared to work in peoples homes and businesses on their electrical installations??

So you've been in the Services for 23 years, but have been around in the building game all your life, ...How?? By the way, your not the only one that has spent a good amount of time saddled up in remote dessert s**t holes and/or been in some scary situations!! I've not been shot at as such, but then surely, joining the armed forces was your choice, and was always going to be a possibility of being put in harms way. Don't get me wrong here, i have every respect for our armed forces personnel, it's something i would never do...

 

[OllieNotts]

You came across like you wanted everyone here to say what a jolly great chap you are and yes do the 5 week course no problems, but you will not get that from any decent time served tradesman. No matter how good you think you would take to it, you wont be a spark after a few weeks or months. And it is likely you wont be able to a plumber come spark as it will suit you because both trades takes time, training, guidance and above all experience. And you have none in either so you should really concentrate on learning one before you think you can just do a course on both and become a handy man ffs.
Also fair play for serving our forces, but as said, you took the job knowing what may happen. I know a lad who took a hit from an IED recently in afgan, should of killed him but for a lot of luck he only got 20% of the blast resulting in him losing the use of his thumb and his hand being kept together with metal pins. He is only 23 and has not moaned once since he got deployed or since it happened so you wont get any special treatment from me. You probably think it is harsh or I am a dick and I might be But lets be honest, you arent canon fodder in the RAF, never have been. You come across like you have made your mind up and then get a mardy on because people on here tell you it is a bad idea. These threads come weekly and you will do what you want despite the time served guys here telling you the facts as you and the rest of them dont like to hear the truth about these magic courses. Quite sad really, but at no point have you convinced me you were here for advise, only here to get the OK to this course as you were going to do it anyway.
Good luck for your future customers, looks like they are gonna need it.

 

[vaughant]

These courses only serve to get you a "domestic installer" status which outside England/Wales counts for nothing,it's not recognised in Scotland where I work and rightly so,it's glorified plug wiring.
Being brutal a lot of domestic stuff is just that and I'm sure with your background it will be a doddle but to seriously progress in this field I suggest you look into an adult apprenticeship of sorts as a bit of site experience probably won't teach you much more than you know now.

As for the handyman jack of all trades things there's mass competition in that as well,and that's I believe a big bone of contention with recognised trades as again it seems unlikely that you can gain enough knowledge in all those fields to be anymore than an odd job man.

As for pensions etc that's your good fortune,I can't see why others are getting upset about it?I can't really see much other lures getting you into the forces these days.

My aunt was an air commodore with the RAF and basically gave her life to the job but age was well rewarded at the end,although it must have been a pretty stressful existence,I've got some awesome slides of all things airforce related.

I'd say with your background you'll find domestic stuff pretty boring after a while,probably about 10 minutes!!!

Would you be better perhaps trying to get into the industrial side of things like what I do,control,plc,drives,systems etc?

You could work 8-4,have an interesting role and no stress of running your own firm while learning a hell of a lot of new stuff,it's been a good career for me for 18 years or so!!!

They often look to ex forces boys cos of good discipline etc.

 

[Dovey]

Vaughant. Thanks for your constructive advice. It is a trade that interests me enormously but like I have said, I would like to do the local handy man thing...something I will have to research further although the industrial angle seems quite appealing. Thanks again.

I will just say that I have never stated that I could just get sorted in 5/6/7 weeks. I asked about the courses and then questioned the different routes to qualification and how they differ. Again...sorry if this has offended, it was not my intention but there seems to be a thread of sensitivity.

Ollie. You seem to be in the midst of training and seeking work for your living. We differ as I have a career behind me I started at 17 not 29 but good luck with the training. I have life experience behind me and I am not seeking to compete with the likes of you at any time. Your assumptions on what the RAF do and do not do are comical and I have taken the liberty of not taking them seriously. My advice to you would be to refrain from posting on a subject you seem to know very little about but stick to learning your trade. I have not got mardy and was not seeking the "OK".. I asked, some responded and I asked for clarification. Best you get off your high horse mate..I am exploring all the options by asking questions, you seem to have tunnel vision. Oh and by the way, " I am a jolly great chap" !! LOL..I don't need you to assess my person as well as my aspirations

Engineer. How have I been round the building game?..I am from a family of builders, chippies and so on. I have bought and sold some houses in the past that required much work to do. My neighbour has a large groundworking company and I have done some work for him in way way or another over the years...all in my spare time. I rarely sit still! . This does not make me qualified in any way but I am site aware, if you like.

I will put this thread to bed now. Thanks to those who have provided such good advice and guidance and thanks to those who have sent some good info through Private message, it has been really helpful. Some thinking to do.

 

[Harmann]

Hi Dovey, I have joined this forum with the same questions as you, I too have left the RAF after only 12 years. I dont have the pension fallback you do and have stayed in the aircraft industry. I did however take a fast track course in domestic electrical. I have my part P, the relevant installation Quals and Pat testing. the thing i dont have is the '91' as it was then. I am struggling to find anyone who will give me advice as to what to do now, or to help me get my foot into the industry. I have work i can do at home electrically, when i asked for help on getting this signed off if i did it, i got stonewalled. presumably because i would be taking work off of local electricians. I hate to sound negative, because i feel for you not receiving any solid advice on here, except for the odd one.
Personally i would take up your family members offer of work, and look into a course just to get the paperwork bit out the way. Stay with him as long as your pension will allow to get the experience and tuition he is offering. Then you should have a good grounding and site experience to maybe grab a few contracts on your own and feel comfortable doing them.
I have just typed all this and noticed the date it was posted. I hope you eventually found what you are looking for.
Good luck matey.

 

[7029 dave]

from an old timer,been in this industry for over 33yrs, when I started at 16 1day week at tech college the rest of the time with a firm out there doing the job,hands on experience that's what you need for starters,think a lot of the lads will back me, you cant learn a trade in 5mins it takes years with on site experience,but if you want to start from the beginning good luck to you,keep away from these fast track courses.