Newbie: stuck fitting a new ceiling rose

[Debs]

Hello everyone,
Just came across this forum looking online for help with what I thought would be a simple job and has now turned into a nightmare. I'm fitting a new ceiling rose and I'm confused with the wiring - esp. the loop part. In essence how do I get these wires in the right places on this fitting below?! I get the live and neutral part but it's the loop that's thrown me....

 

[telectrix]

I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT ALUMINIUM CABLE. well past it's useful life.. time to call in an electrician.

 

[Old Tiler 43192]

If you don't understand what and how to wire a ceiling rose, then you shouldn't be doing it. For safety sake get a registered electrician to finish this for you.

 

[westward10]

The problem is you have now taken the old one off and it is impossible to say which ones are the loop and switch. I agree with #2 that it looks like aluminium conductors and you need to contact an electrician. Those terminals at your new rose are likely to just break the aluminium as they are not suitable for aluminium wires.

 

[telectrix]

eeney, meeney, mimey, Bang.

 

[westward10]

Reckon I could hazard a guess to the switch one.

 

[telectrix]

a guess and a reel of 5A fuse wire?

 

[7029 dave]

3 plate wiring is not the best for DIY, seeing that you have completely pulled it apart, my advice is to employ a sparkie to reconnect, 5 minute job for such.

 

[Ian1981]

Must be the doubled over black as the switch live.
Come across tinned copper from time to time but never aluminium conductors.

 

[westward10]

They are definitely ali they are shaped square as well which is unusual for a small csa.

 

[Octopus]

Without any test kit you are going to have to rely on a bit of guess work and the bang test.

 

[Pete999]

If you don't understand what and how to wire a ceiling rose, then you shouldn't be doing it. For safety sake get a registered electrician to finish this for you.

A domestic installer could sort that couldn't he/she

 

[telectrix]

Without any test kit you are going to have to rely on a bit of guess work and the bang test.

a pp3 battery, bulb and a bit of wire to ID the switch wire. job's good (till the ali conductors snap off.

 

[soms]

a pp3 battery, bulb and a bit of wire to ID the switch wire. job's good (till the ali conductors snap off.

Off topic, but for the purposes of my education, are these aluminium conductors?
I was aware tinned copper has been used in cables but didn't realise aluminium was ever used in small CSA/domestic cables.

 

[westward10]

They certainly look like they are. Back in the seventies when the price of copper shot up some manufacturers, BICC being one of them produced copperclad aluminium T&E generally in solid core 1.5 and stranded 4.0 sizes. It was copperclad to prevent the aluminium from oxidizing and can easily be mistaken for copper, the give away being it breaks very easily when connected at tunnel terminals for which it isn't really suitable. The OPs is quite unusual as it is not copperclad and the certainty it is not tinned copper is that there is no copper showing where it has been damaged through termination.

 

[westward10]

This is a piece of copperclad aluminium T&E and I have scratched the red to reveal the aluminium but it isn't very clear. It was made by fitting an aluminium bar into a copper tube and stretching it.

 

[Squid]

When a mate calls you up to let you know that his lights aren't working and can you help him out you ask "have you done anything" the answer is "noooooo" when you turn up you notice a new light fitting in the front room, you know where this is leading...........

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Just a guess but id be likely to say the black wire on the left most of image folded back on its end is switched live. if you look at the image there is what appears to be a black mark a different shade from the insulation on it, possibly pen marking, or glue residue from tape etc...

 

[telectrix]

never mind about the colours of the cables. what about the putrid pink curtain/s?

 

[Flanders]

I just want to know where the earth wires go to ? O and to the op read the bottom part of the instructions on the pendant , ☺

 

[ashg285]

as mentioned mate, time to get a sparky in

 

[westward10]

Deleted.

 

[JackSparky]

Bloody hell...

 

[mickfred]

Like everyone before probably best to get a spark in but the best guess is can give is the three reds go n the loop the two blacks in the neutral and the one remaining black which is doubled over goes in the live. Again rather you get a spark in .

 

[westward10]

No more guessing, accidents will happen.

 

[mickfred]

Again get a spark in . But to could pull the doubled over black and the red in same cable to one side connect the two remaining red together , two remaining blacks together have the light switch in the off position and check the other light s in the house to make sure they are working , if this is so and providing the the room which you light is being change only has one light in it then it's likely the the doubled over cable is the switch wire and can be connected as said in my last post . If this feels too much for you DON'T DO IT

 

[RWJ]

I suppose it's fortunate that OP asked for advice and didn't do what most do, join all the same colours together!

 

[telectrix]

could always install this. at least it would smell better than burnt cables:

 

[Richard Burns]

could always install this. at least it would smell better than burnt cables:

View attachment 38365

That is an earth rose not a ceiling rose, you need one of these:

 

[Debs]

Thank you everyone for your replies and advice. Much appreciated (not the curtain comments though - it's my little girls bedroom). I've taped and covered the live cables and I'm calling an electrician. It's way too complicated for me to tackle. I'm so confused by it all and my impression of electricians is very high. FYI the SL cable was in the earth on the old Rose. Also the three earths are all twisted together up in the ceiling - I've now learnt they need to be sleeved in the new colours etc but I'm going to get a pro in. Thanks everyone.

 

[Debs]

P.S. If anyone is a qualified electrician living near RH8 let me know

 

[telectrix]

Thank you everyone for your replies and advice. Much appreciated (not the curtain comments though - it's my little girls bedroom). I've taped and covered the live cables and I'm calling an electrician. It's way too complicated for me to tackle. I'm so confused by it all and my impression of electricians is very high. FYI the SL cable was in the earth on the old Rose. Also the three earths are all twisted together up in the ceiling - I've now learnt they need to be sleeved in the new colours etc but I'm going to get a pro in. Thanks everyone.

soz.about the curtain comment. maybe my rose will make up for it.

 

[Debs]

soz.about the curtain comment. maybe my rose will make up for it.

Ahh thank you, no worries

 

[telectrix]

where's RH8?

 

[Debs]

Oxted, Surrey

 

[telectrix]

murdoch is down that way.

 

[Rosco]

How far off the m25 are you? If you can't find someone during the day I could come by on my way home. PM if needed.

 

[Debs]

How far off the m25 are you? If you can't find someone during the day I could come by on my way home. PM if needed.

Hello, Literally 5 mins off the M25 junction 6... about 3 miles

 

[telectrix]

 

[Debs]

Big thank you to the lovely Rosco who saved the day!