Part P and self Certification

[Retired-Still-Interested]

Hi. Can anyone help me out in understanding Part P and notifiable work in a Domestic dwelling. I am a recently retired electrician and I now want to carry out electrical work in my own home and also for my family, friends and neighbour's. If I undertake and pass C & G 2393-10 and I am in receipt of that same Certificate can I then legally carry out the above works and issue an appropriate compliance certificate for notifiable works done in my own home and work in other domestic dwellings. Also how would I obtain compliance certificates to issue. Any help and advice on this would be much appreciated.

 

[Dustydazzler]

You need to join a domestic installer scheme to self notify domestic installation work such as new consumer units / full rewires

 

[Strima]

Any notifiable works come under Part P:

Notifiable works​

• The installation of a new circuit
• The replacement of a consumer unit
• Any addition or alteration to an existing circuit in a special location

Non- notifiable works​

• All other work is considered non-notifiable, namely additions and alterations to existing installations outside special locations, maintenance, replacement and repair work.

For scheme registration as a domestic installer you will require the following, taken from the NICEIC website as an example:

To apply for our Domestic Installer scheme your business must:

• Be directly engaged in Domestic Electrical Work
• Have a minimum of £2 million Public Liability Insurance in the registered trading name
• Certificates of technical qualifications achieved by the Qualified Supervisor
• Hold a current edition of BS 7671, HSR25 (E@WR89) and any other technical reference guides relevant to the range and scale of electrical work you undertake
• Maintain a record of the ongoing accuracy and consistency of test equipment used for certification and reporting purposes
• Appoint one or more Qualified Supervisor as required
• Proposed Qualified Supervisor has at least 2 years responsibility for electrical work
• Have a safe isolation and re-energisation of installations procedure in place
• Have a written Health & Safety Policy Statement and carry out risk assessments as appropriate
• Make available for assessment sufficient examples of domestic electrical installation work completed with appropriate certification in the previous 12 months by the business. It is advisable to arrange access to a selection of sites

As a side note work for family and friends can end in tears as they expect a lot for very little.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Yes ’mates rates’ is a recipe for arguments

i either do the job for free (they buy the gear) like putting up an IKEA light fitting or it’s my normal rate and I do materials at cost e,g board swap

I don’t charge friends / mates for cable , boxes etc as I always have that laying around but everything else is chargeable

 

[MrMan1O1]

Any notifiable works come under Part P:

Notifiable works​

• The installation of a new circuit
• The replacement of a consumer unit
• Any addition or alteration to an existing circuit in a special location

Non- notifiable works​

• All other work is considered non-notifiable, namely additions and alterations to existing installations outside special locations, maintenance, replacement and repair work.

For scheme registration as a domestic installer you will require the following, taken from the NICEIC website as an example:

To apply for our Domestic Installer scheme your business must:

• Be directly engaged in Domestic Electrical Work
• Have a minimum of £2 million Public Liability Insurance in the registered trading name
• Certificates of technical qualifications achieved by the Qualified Supervisor
• Hold a current edition of BS 7671, HSR25 (E@WR89) and any other technical reference guides relevant to the range and scale of electrical work you undertake
• Maintain a record of the ongoing accuracy and consistency of test equipment used for certification and reporting purposes
• Appoint one or more Qualified Supervisor as required
• Proposed Qualified Supervisor has at least 2 years responsibility for electrical work
• Have a safe isolation and re-energisation of installations procedure in place
• Have a written Health & Safety Policy Statement and carry out risk assessments as appropriate
• Make available for assessment sufficient examples of domestic electrical installation work completed with appropriate certification in the previous 12 months by the business. It is advisable to arrange access to a selection of sites

As a side note work for family and friends can end in tears as they expect a lot for very little.

How come there's no mention here of any requirement for a course/qualification that proves knowledge of Part P of Building Regs.?
How does a newly qualified electrician manage to notify building control that the installation meets Part P Regs.? It seems he would have to work for a supervising electrician for 2yrs before he could set up on his own. If he wants to set up on his own, what's the legal workaround?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Any notifiable works come under Part P:

Point of order.
All electrical works are governed by Part P.

 

[MrMan1O1]

Oops, just realised the C&G course quoted in the original post is actually a Part P qual.

 

[Strima]

Oops, just realised the C&G course quoted in the original post is actually a Part P qual.

There's no requirement to hold any sort of formal qualification, you just need to have competency. This is normally shown through qualification... ?

And the Part P qualification isn't worth the paper it's printed on, it just prints money for the course providers.

It is accepted that you can carry out notifiable works and notify after you have had your scheme assessment.

You could do it properly by completing the works and paying LABC to inspect it afterwards however this would prove to be very very expensive.

 

[Taylortwocities]

You could do it properly by completing the works and paying LABC to inspect it afterwards however this would prove to be very very expensive.

Using that route, you must raise a building notice before work starts, and LABC may want to inspect work during the process.

There is also the mystery 3rd party notification process.

 

[Retired-Still-Interested]

Any notifiable works come under Part P:

Notifiable works​

• The installation of a new circuit
• The replacement of a consumer unit
• Any addition or alteration to an existing circuit in a special location

Non- notifiable works​

• All other work is considered non-notifiable, namely additions and alterations to existing installations outside special locations, maintenance, replacement and repair work.

For scheme registration as a domestic installer you will require the following, taken from the NICEIC website as an example:

To apply for our Domestic Installer scheme your business must:

• Be directly engaged in Domestic Electrical Work
• Have a minimum of £2 million Public Liability Insurance in the registered trading name
• Certificates of technical qualifications achieved by the Qualified Supervisor
• Hold a current edition of BS 7671, HSR25 (E@WR89) and any other technical reference guides relevant to the range and scale of electrical work you undertake
• Maintain a record of the ongoing accuracy and consistency of test equipment used for certification and reporting purposes
• Appoint one or more Qualified Supervisor as required
• Proposed Qualified Supervisor has at least 2 years responsibility for electrical work
• Have a safe isolation and re-energisation of installations procedure in place
• Have a written Health & Safety Policy Statement and carry out risk assessments as appropriate
• Make available for assessment sufficient examples of domestic electrical installation work completed with appropriate certification in the previous 12 months by the business. It is advisable to arrange access to a selection of sites

As a side note work for family and friends can end in tears as they expect a lot for very little.

Thank you for a very comprehensive reply to my question re Part P. I have to say though that I am a bit taken aback with all that compliance. To summarise it looks like if I need to replace my own CU, I can do it if I first notify my LABC and then have them come and inspect the work and pay them I presume a substantial fee. My experience in Industrial/commercial for more years than I care to remember doesn't appear to count as I can't now carry out certain electrical work in my own home. It appears Red Tape and Beaurocricy have gone mad. It doesn't seem to be worth me trying to comply with all of the above at my age, so it looks like they have won and I may have to pay an electrician to do notifiable work in my home.You couldn't make this scenario up if you tried. Thank you once again.

 

[MrMan1O1]

And the Part P qualification isn't worth the paper it's printed on, it just prints money for the course providers.

That's exactly what I told my course provider when I did my installer and insp&test level3 C&G in 2008, because they persuaded all of us on the course to pay extra for an EAL certificate which included a module on Part P Regs. I then realised it was a waste of money if I wasn't going to join a scheme.

Using that route, you must raise a building notice before work starts, and LABC may want to inspect work during the process.

There is also the mystery 3rd party notification process.

I have paid my LABC for building regs approval of my kitchen extension, but they tell me they don't have anyone to inspect my work and said I need to get a third party to sign it off! Not very helpful of them.... what do we pay them for?!
After doing my courses I didn't go into the domestic installations business full time as I was lucky to have a better (?)..... different offer. However, using borrowed test equipment I did one notifiable job and the LABC at the time were happy to issue the completion certificate with me signing off the installation and testing certs, but I had to send them copies of my qualifications to demonstrate competence.
Now they say the person signing the electrical certs must be a member of the competent person scheme, although I get the feeling if I speak to a different BI I might get a different answer.

 

[MrMan1O1]

Retired-Still-Interested it might still be worth talking to your LABC as the approach varies around the country it seems....it shouldn't, but does.
I'm in similar situation. I've got someone who is on the competent person register coming round tomorrow to quote for new consumer unit and hopefully he'll be happy to approve my first fix as well.

 

[Strima]

Thank you for a very comprehensive reply to my question re Part P

Part P was intended to ensure that homeowners were not been taken for a ride by dodgy Dave down the pub and that all dwellings had fit and safe installations. All it did was make above board electricians fork out more money for scheme membership whilst dodgy Dave down the pub was able to carry on as normal.

The only hurdle recently is that a lot of estate agents/solicitors now asked for certification for electrical works when selling/buying houses which is starting to catch a few people out.

 

[brianmoooore]

The only hurdle recently is that a lot of estate agents/solicitors now asked for certification for electrical works when selling/buying houses which is starting to catch a few people out.

Isn't that easily sorted by a £40 or so "certificate of regularisation" or something similar?

 

[Strima]

Isn't that easily sorted by a £40 or so "certificate of regularisation" or something similar?

Some do, some don't. A lot would now prefer to see an EICR.

 

[brianmoooore]

I was assuming a satisfactory EICR as well.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I was assuming a satisfactory EICR as well.

not necessarily, you can still buy and sell a house with garbage wiring regardless of what an eicr recommends

if you are a buyer you may wish to renegotiate the price if you find out it requires a rewire

but that’s about it

likewise you can buy a cheap indemnity to smooth over the sales process , in the same way of a small extension had no paperwork

 

[Zerax]

I'm still trying to work out what the LABC do with all these notifications... You'd think that they'd show up on a 'local search'... but I've never seen them being shown.

 

[Midwest]

Isn't that easily sorted by a £40 or so "certificate of regularisation" or something similar?

You missed a 0 off of that. My LABC charges £400 + vat to arrange inspecting & testing.

That said, when I asked about doing a CU change in my own house, they got themselves in a right mucking fuddle. First they send us you last annual assessment with a Scheme. Then they said, errgh do the work, then get an EICR done.

I'm getting someone to Third Party it, but that was hard finding one of those willing to do it.

 

[Midwest]

I'm still trying to work out what the LABC do with all these notifications... You'd think that they'd show up on a 'local search'... but I've never seen them being shown.

My LABC has them all listed one their web site.