Please Explain The Lack Of Brexit

[Deleted member 26818]

This thread is too convoluted for me, why would I need to know my neighbours criminal record.

You don’t, but if you were to ask, the Police would most likely explain to why they can’t divulge such information.
The same laws and rules that prevent them disclosing information to you, also apply to someone from another country, excepting the EU.
Whether the UK will still have access to the European Criminal Records Information System after Brexit remains to be seen.

 

[telectrix]

we will.we have an inside man. inspector clousseau of the surete.

 

[Midwest]

You don’t, but if you were to ask, the Police would most likely explain to why they can’t divulge such information.
The same laws and rules that prevent them disclosing information to you, also apply to someone from another country, excepting the EU.
Whether the UK will still have access to the European Criminal Records Information System after Brexit remains to be seen.

You don't seem to understand my question, why would I need to know my neighbours criminal record (and not their collection of Ken Dodd tracks)?

I understand data protection and rules on disclosure. The exchange of criminal records happens between police forces in the EU, and similarly that information can be exchanged between EU & non EU police forces. In the former, that takes place as a matter of course, whilst the latter is provided on request.

 

[elsparko]

You've got no chance darkwood

I rest my case.

are you saying angela merkel isnt fat? i refuse to take advice from someone who cannot control their calorie intake vs their calorie output.

 

[elsparko]

why are people always so keen to vote for what is worst for them?

 

[Midwest]

are you saying angela merkel isnt fat? i refuse to take advice from someone who cannot control their calorie intake vs their calorie output.

You wait until you get to your fifties, and check out your waistline then :mdancing:

 

[Midwest]

why are people always so keen to vote for what is worst for them?

Suppose that's was an occupation hazard being in East Germany at the time.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The rules regarding disclosure of criminal records pre date the Data Protection acts.
Information held on the UK Police National Computer is available to EU countries via ECRIS.
Conversely information which other EU countries have placed on ECRIS is available to UK Police forces and immigration officers.
There is not now and has never been any framework in place allowing the exchange of criminal records with non-EU countries without first obtaining the consent of the individual in question.
However, where a non EU citizen is convicted of a recordable offence in the UK, details of the conviction will be sent to that citizen’s home country.

What this means in regards to Brexit, is that at present immigration officers can refuse entry to the UK for EU nationals, if ECRIS shows that immigrant as having a criminal record for serious crimes such as murder and rape. Dependant of course on whether an immigration officer checks with ECRIS.
Since 2012, around 6,000 EU nationals have been refused entry on this basis.

Whether the U.K. will have access to ECRIS after Brexit remains to be seen.
As I understand it, we are at present negotiating being able to check the estimated 3 million EU nationals who the government expect will wish to apply for settled status.
Whether that figure of 3 million includes the 80,000 per year unqualified seasonal workers the government intends to allow, is not clear.

 

[Midwest]

The rules regarding disclosure of criminal records pre date the Data Protection acts.
Information held on the UK Police National Computer is available to EU countries via ECRIS.
Conversely information which other EU countries have placed on ECRIS is available to UK Police forces and immigration officers.
There is not now and has never been any framework in place allowing the exchange of criminal records with non-EU countries without first obtaining the consent of the individual in question.
However, where a non EU citizen is convicted of a recordable offence in the UK, details of the conviction will be sent to that citizen’s home country.

What this means in regards to Brexit, is that at present immigration officers can refuse entry to the UK for EU nationals, if ECRIS shows that immigrant as having a criminal record for serious crimes such as murder and rape. Dependant of course on whether an immigration officer checks with ECRIS.
Since 2012, around 6,000 EU nationals have been refused entry on this basis.

Whether the U.K. will have access to ECRIS after Brexit remains to be seen.
As I understand it, we are at present negotiating being able to check the estimated 3 million EU nationals who the government expect will wish to apply for settled status.
Whether that figure of 3 million includes the 80,000 per year unqualified seasonal workers the government intends to allow, is not clear.

Above and above is not quite what you suggested in #114. I've been reading ACRO Criminal Records Office web site, and information between EU police forces flows backwards & forwards, and in addition to that (from ACRO FAQ);

'If you have been convicted in a country outside of the EU the conviction details may be forwarded to the UK. When the Non-EU Exchange of Criminal Records (NEU-ECR) team in ACRO receives such information, and an equivalent “recordable” offence is found, they will also update the PNC and inform Scotland and Northern Ireland where applicable'.

 

[elsparko]

You wait until you get to your fifties, and check out your waistline then :mdancing:

i doubt i will live that long

 

[Pete999]

Suppose that's was an occupation hazard being in East Germany at the time.

A commie and a German?

 

[Des 56]

World war 1,World war 2,the German dominated Eu,Angela Merkel,exceptional engineering standards and the fantastically successful Football team(who happen to win world cup after world cup to the point of becoming routine)

Aside from these points.What is it about Germans that you English hate and detest?
I ask because it seems the English genes are courtesy of your German ancestors and its got to be bad karma to diss your own forefathers

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Above and above is not quite what you suggested in #114. I've been reading ACRO Criminal Records Office web site, and information between EU police forces flows backwards & forwards, and in addition to that (from ACRO FAQ);

'If you have been convicted in a country outside of the EU the conviction details may be forwarded to the UK. When the Non-EU Exchange of Criminal Records (NEU-ECR) team in ACRO receives such information, and an equivalent “recordable” offence is found, they will also update the PNC and inform Scotland and Northern Ireland where applicable'.

It may seem from the ACRO website that information is flowing back and forth.
The reality is that only information which is held on ECRIS is available.
In regards to the U.K. that means information held on the PNC. Who knows what other countries make available?
With regards to the FAQ, yes it is usual that when a U.K. citizen is convicted abroad, for the information to be passed to the relevant U.K. Police force. Just the same as when a foreign National is convicted in the U.K. the information is passed to their country.
There are also instances where a U.K. national has been re-patriated to the U.K. to serve out custodial sentences.
However informing a convicted person’s home country that they have been convicted of a crime while they were visiting another country, is not the same as someone’s home country divulging their criminal record to a foreign country.

 

[elsparko]

World war 1,World war 2,the German dominated Eu,Angela Merkel,exceptional engineering standards and the fantastically successful Football team(who happen to win world cup after world cup to the point of becoming routine)

Aside from these points.What is it about Germans that you English hate and detest?
I ask because it seems the English genes are courtesy of your German ancestors and its got to be bad karma to diss your own forefathers

two world wars were fairly major events, its not even the german people, its the dingleberries like merkel thinking she can dictate to the rest of europe.

were not even physically part of europe anyway, ill be out on the airfield fueling my spitfire

 

[Midwest]

Let me try to educate you:
Only immigrants from the EU can be checked for criminal records. There is no law which allows us to check other immigrants, just as there is no law allowing non-EU countries to check if UK nationals have criminal records.

Brexit will not stop immigration.
Immigrants are used by businesses as cheap labour, the government will not stop immigration.
The Tories pledged to curb immigration when they came to power, immigration increased.
Theresa May was Home Secretary, she failed to curb immigration. Further Theresa May reduced the budget for border control, resulting in fewer immigration officers.
If you want to clean up the streets, you don’t sack all the road sweepers.

It may seem from the ACRO website that information is flowing back and forth.
The reality is that only information which is held on ECRIS is available.
In regards to the U.K. that means information held on the PNC. Who knows what other countries make available?
With regards to the FAQ, yes it is usual that when a U.K. citizen is convicted abroad, for the information to be passed to the relevant U.K. Police force. Just the same as when a foreign National is convicted in the U.K. the information is passed to their country.
There are also instances where a U.K. national has been re-patriated to the U.K. to serve out custodial sentences.
However informing a convicted person’s home country that they have been convicted of a crime while they were visiting another country, is not the same as someone’s home country divulging their criminal record to a foreign country.

Yes I googled the ACRO web site as well.

But they can & do pass information, and can do checks on a foreign nationals in their home country, something you said was not possible, when you said 'Let me educate you' #114.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Have you actually read what I have said?
Informing someone’s home country that they have committed a crime in this country is not accessing their criminal record.
Yes they do checks on foreign nationals, but they are unable to access their criminal record without that foreign national’s consent.

 

[Midwest]

Yes I have read what you said, but your suggestion, is these checks are not possible and not done.

This information is freely shared, and 'they' can access their criminal records. Otherwise it would be pointless sentencing someone convicted of a crime without having access to their full criminal record.

Interpol also shares such information, in real time, to the worlds member police forces.

This functions the same way as UK police forces share local intelligence about persons, between themselves

 

[Midwest]

World war 1,World war 2,the German dominated Eu,Angela Merkel,exceptional engineering standards and the fantastically successful Football team(who happen to win world cup after world cup to the point of becoming routine)

Aside from these points.What is it about Germans that you English hate and detest?
I ask because it seems the English genes are courtesy of your German ancestors and its got to be bad karma to diss your own forefathers

They do a mean sausage, but that's about it food wise. Suppose you can't fault their lager, ohh and they make some good cars.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes I have read what you said, but your suggestion, is these checks are not possible and not done.

This information is freely shared, and 'they' can access their criminal records. Otherwise it would be pointless sentencing someone convicted of a crime without having access to their full criminal record.

Interpol also shares such information, in real time, to the worlds member police forces.

This functions the same way as UK police forces share local intelligence about persons, between themselves

No my assertation is that the checks cannot be done without the consent of the person being checked.

It’s not freely shared.

The information Interpol shares is whatever they have, which is mostly warrants for arrest, not details of criminal records.

 

[Midwest]

No my assertation is that the checks cannot be done without the consent of the person being checked.

It’s not freely shared.

The information Interpol shares is whatever they have, which is mostly warrants for arrest, not details of criminal records.

Granted the information of persons has to be requested by authorised body managed here by ACPO, but the information of criminal convictions is shared.

Not sure the individually has anything to do with authorising the disclosure of their criminal convictions.

Agree that Interpol does not hold databases of criminal convictions, but have many shared databases of criminal activity, fingerprints, dna, vehicles & stolen plant etc.

Suppose we've done this to death now.