Shower Electric shocks but not everyone

[Roger]

Got a call today to go to a old flat as the lady was getting shocks when she was having a shower.
She explained that when she touches the tap and then the shower unit she gets a tingle and now here daughter is getting them as well.
Considering the property is a rental I was amazed to see a old rewireable fuse with some retrofit Wylex MCB put in there.No RCD ,bit of old twisted uninsulated earth wire coming up from the supply cable buried in the wall.The fuse box was not a stand alone type unit it was integral in a metal type service cabinet about 2 foot tall.
The property has an earth 0.6 (TN-S) however it only goes to power circuits,the lights have no earth and the circuit feeding the shower pump.Pulling of a cover in the cabinet revealed about 3 cables out of 8 actually had a cpc in them.
Incoming water is bonded ,but not gas to this flat and next door.Wondering around my R2 Long lead could get no continuity on any taps ,shower.
There is no supplementary bonding anywhere,lots of plastic unions so continuity if it was there is now broken.
The shower has a pump and the boiler is a conventional type with a hot cylinder upstairs.No bonding in the airing cupboard.
Now I assume she is experiencing a difference in potential which is why she is getting shocks.I could not get any shocks with the shower running and checked for any voltage present just with my volt stick and direct measurement,non existed.

But why does she get it and the previous tenant did not ?

Apart from saying the flat should really be rewired and it is not really suitable for renting i need to provide a detailed explanation as to what is going on and why it has not happened previously.

If i upgraded and put in main bonding to services and run upstairs to bathroom from MET,also supplementary bonding in bathroom under bath and sink and airing cupboard would that fix it.

She has just signed for 6 months so not really practical to rewire now,if he actually wants to go ahead.
Any help greatly received

 

[Roger]

Its still bugging me whats going on,ok have left a bit happier but still not convinced.
To recap:-
If the CPC is disconnected I immediately get the 24 volts again between pump earth post and bonding.Reconnect CPC and voltage goes away,pump does not have to run to get voltage it is there all the time.There must be something internally in the pump which is failing.Its works fine.
If i can identify what else is on the circuit i will carry out a IR test tomorrow on it,I will do between live conductors and earth first just in case.
I'm on a day rate,so lets do it all !

 

[pushrod]

Definitely sounds like there is a fault there still waiting to be found and the reconnection of the cpc/bonding is just masking it - better storyline than coronation street this

 

[Big n Daft]

Pushrods got the best solution, no doubt.Otherwise.........This may sound completly daft but what clothes does she wear. No No No take that thought rite out your disturbed one track mind!! It could just be static build up when removing her clothes prior to showering.
Highly unlikely, I know.
If I turned up at that place the nike's would be going pretty sharpish.

 

[coomers]

be careful what you do on this job you are now working in a bathroom part p applies the pump should be on a rcd its in the bathroom,if it was lekage would knock rcd out new pump required! (obviously if cpc connected and now youve connected it you now need to install rcd)

 

[Roger]

be careful what you do on this job you are now working in a bathroom part p applies the pump should be on a rcd its in the bathroom,if it was lekage would knock rcd out new pump required! (obviously if cpc connected and now youve connected it you now need to install rcd)

Very valid point for the sake of £25.00 its worth putting one on it and compliance.Lets find where the circuit ends and what else is on it.

~Thank you~

 

[Roger]

some pics

 

[coomers]

mate STOP seriously do a test and report list all defects hand to landlord just by seeing that pic place needs a rewire if you are last electrician who carried out work there your becoming responsible especially now youve done bonding and with what you can see you are obliged to bring installation condition to owners attention in the form of PIR if he dont want you too do this put it in writing

 

[truckster]

It seems pretty clear that the pump is breakin down,or is there a rf suppressor in it that is failing?

Agree with coomers, put all the faults in writing to the slumlord, cover your a***

 

[topquark]

View attachment 5802some picsView attachment 5801

That CU is a death trap mate. If the landlord is being such a prat over it you could always blow the main fuse and call the DNO (who will insist on a cert before reconnecting)

 

[mickys86]

Hi all
just passed my level 2 qualification and I'm finding the forum very fascinating and very helpful.

I've read this post and although it's also bugging me what the fault could be. What's bugging me most is......
Who is the DNO and what does IMO mean?? Haha
cheers
Michael

 

[Roger]

IMO - in my opinion
DNO Distribution network operator (electricity provider)

 

[pushrod]

Hi Roger post #48 was just a spammer - press the little exclamation button next to the thanks and mods will usually remove them

 

[Roger]

"It seems pretty clear that the pump is breakin down,or is there a rf suppressor in it that is failing?"

There is a ferrite RF suppressor in the main terminal box,how can it fail ?

I did a IR test on that circuit as i could only find one other item on it and that was a kitchen convector type fan heater.Pulled the fuse on the spur for that as it looked a bit knackered.Somewhere in the floor above is a JB however I not going to find it unless it all comes up.New carpets and vinyl floors just fitted.In place of the Fused spur to the shower pump I have fitted a RCD it is not tripping and pump functions fine.The circuit went over range on IR test.
I can not offer a explanation as to that 24 volts on the pump unless it is somesort of control circuit to do with the flow sensors switching on and off(clutching at straws now)
All fuses gone and now on Wylex retro MCB.

Smelt gas again today ,phoned Transco.Turned up within the hour and we have a leak on the meter exit side going into the property next door,so it has been repaired however the owner was not in so its not on.
So with the electric tingles and gas issues the tenant is now saying the place is dangerous,the landlord has the hump with me as I should not have said anything to the tenant.
The installation is a lot better than when I first turned up however it could be better.At least if faults do occur it will trip either RCD or MCB.
I have reassured her about the condition and recommended a rewire to take place at the next occupancy change to the landlord.
The tenant has spoken to the letting agency and they have given the landlord grief as well ,so my invoice is going to the bottom of the heap.
The letting agency stated that the owner does NOT have to get a certificate for the electrical equipment,only gas.
Is that right or misinterpreting the statutory duty guidelines ?

 

[pushrod]

"It seems pretty clear that the pump is breakin down,or is there a rf suppressor in it that is failing?"

There is a ferrite RF suppressor in the main terminal box,how can it fail ?

I did a IR test on that circuit as i could only find one other item on it and that was a kitchen convector type fan heater.Pulled the fuse on the spur for that as it looked a bit knackered.Somewhere in the floor above is a JB however I not going to find it unless it all comes up.New carpets and vinyl floors just fitted.In place of the Fused spur to the shower pump I have fitted a RCD it is not tripping and pump functions fine.The circuit went over range on IR test.
I can not offer a explanation as to that 24 volts on the pump unless it is somesort of control circuit to do with the flow sensors switching on and off(clutching at straws now)
All fuses gone and now on Wylex retro MCB.

Smelt gas again today ,phoned Transco.Turned up within the hour and we have a leak on the meter exit side going into the property next door,so it has been repaired however the owner was not in so its not on.
So with the electric tingles and gas issues the tenant is now saying the place is dangerous,the landlord has the hump with me as I should not have said anything to the tenant.
The installation is a lot better than when I first turned up however it could be better.At least if faults do occur it will trip either RCD or MCB.
I have reassured her about the condition and recommended a rewire to take place at the next occupancy change to the landlord.
The tenant has spoken to the letting agency and they have given the landlord grief as well ,so my invoice is going to the bottom of the heap.
The letting agency stated that the owner does NOT have to get a certificate for the electrical equipment,only gas.
Is that right or misinterpreting the statutory duty guidelines ?

That is correct - there is no statutory requirement to have an electrical inspection
on a rented property only recommendations !

 

[mickys86]

"no statutory requirement to have a certificate on rented accommodation"!!
I never knew that (only level 2 qualified) and tbh I'm shocked! The fact that a landlord can receive payment for a property which is dangerous just seems wrong on so many levels!!

 

[pushrod]

"no statutory requirement to have a certificate on rented accommodation"!!
I never knew that (only level 2 qualified) and tbh I'm shocked! The fact that a landlord can receive payment for a property which is dangerous just seems wrong on so many levels!!

Well as I/they say "every day's a learning day".


It is a bit like innocent til proven guilty - just because it doesn't have certificates doesn't mean you can assume it is dangerous. A lot of landlords will however get some sort of electrical inspection done just to show that they are acting responsibly. Now let's hope that question comes up in your exams

 

[mickys86]

Well as I/they say "every day's a learning day".


It is a bit like innocent til proven guilty - just because it doesn't have certificates doesn't mean you can assume it is dangerous. A lot of landlords will however get some sort of electrical inspection done just to show that they are acting responsibly. Now let's hope that question comes up in your exams

Fingers crossed!! Haha

 

[truckster]

I was thinking more of the three wire cap type suppressors. Ferrite ring as you point out is not going to give you the problem.

 

[Des 56]

The landlord does not have to have an electrical inspection,but it is one way of demonstrating his duty of care, which is a requirement

The problem with this landlord is,he has no sense of duty

 

[mickys86]

The problem with this landlord is,he has no sense of duty

I've had a landlord like that!