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Discuss What are the changes to PAT- new 5th Edition CoP in the Electrical Testing & PAT Testing Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

pc1966

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Very much so. Annual testing has the advantage it is easy to manage and justify, even if some items could reasonably be done on a 3 or even 5 year basis.

I would imagine in a hairdresser it would be a case of staff being instructed to check and report any visible damage or add behaviour every week and then to get you in maybe 3-6 monthly or whatever to actually test things, a bit like building sites?

You would think that folk would notice and stop using dodgy equipment automatically, and it is unscrupulous bosses forcing them to proceed with dangerous stuff, but sadly many folk just don't notice. I am surprised at times to see friends/family with stuff that is an obvious fail, like plugs failing to grip the sheath, or flexes beginning to split open. They are not dumb folk, but that just passes them by...
 

pirate

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Well, here I am, almost halfway through my 2 weeks isolation and...Hurrah! My copy of the 5th Edition arrived today! Should keep me out of mischief for a few days. Not a lot of book for the money, but packed full of interesting stuff, I'm sure.
 

Julie.

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Well, here I am, almost halfway through my 2 weeks isolation and...Hurrah! My copy of the 5th Edition arrived today! Should keep me out of mischief for a few days. Not a lot of book for the money, but packed full of interesting stuff, I'm sure.
Nope.

Not interesting....
 

James

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Well, here I am, almost halfway through my 2 weeks isolation and...Hurrah! My copy of the 5th Edition arrived today! Should keep me out of mischief for a few days. Not a lot of book for the money, but packed full of interesting stuff, I'm sure.
Now there’s a book to read if your struggling to sleep.
By page 6 you will be fast asleep
 

pirate

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I have relented, and revisited the 5th Edition COP today as it was raining heavily...
My view is somewhat jaded, I confess...
OK, it's no longer PAT, and I get that. I have always tested, say, wall mounted radiators which are variously plugged in or wired in to a FCU. Frankly, the latter have often revealed really shoddy terminations, but that's another topic entirely.
Ok, no more "next test due" (that was already changed anyway) but now it's up to the dutyholder to decide on a testing interval, so he/she asks the tester...thus we have to decide, and who could blame us for referring to the test intervals previously suggested? After all, they were quite sensible for most cases, if you used a bit of common sense.
Now though, you have to justify the testing interval...I don't have a problem with that...I'm a grown-up and perfectly happy to state my case, but maybe the temptation is to state an interval just inside the previous guidelines? Me, I try to apply common-sense anyway, and often recommended longer intervals for some appliances...but then, that massive fridge/freezer is never going to move, is it? WRONG! It has been dragged into the garage since your last visit, and the cable has been abraded en-route...so, not my problem, right?
Oh well, we'll live with it...the Courts aren't exactly bulging with reparation claims over PAT...yet.
Next rant is...Calibration. Not just for PA Testers, but it's a good example. My tester gets calibrated every year, in November actually, so it is due soon. Now, I am not a busy working electrician doing loads of PAT stuff, but nevertheless I send it away faithfully every year, so I can a) be sure it is in good order and b) show any busybody that I have done all i can to ensure it is fit for purpose, thus deflecting any claims etc.
However, since last November I reckon I have tested maybe 50 appliances, as due to Covid i have had no work since March this year, and not many folks want testing done around Christmas/New Year. Here is my question: Would it be sensible for all testers to have a run-time indicator, so that, for example, you should have a calibration after say 1000 tests, or 2000 tests, or 500 tests? In other words, should calibration be tied to actual usage, rather than a time-line? Has my PA tester "drifted" while in storage in my cupboard, doing nothing? I ask this because I suspect that many "part-timers" like me will probably not bother with calibration if they have been devoid of work for a long time. Me, I'll send it off next week anyway...showing you have done it, and with a copy of COP 5th Edition in your bag, you can demonstrate that you have a "system in place" that keeps you up to date. Identifying, and indeed testing, hard-wired appliances, rather than just those with a plug attached, is the new "normal", and that's fine with me...but how many sticker-jockeys will bother/know how/care at all. I'm all for accountability, but I fail to see how the 5th Edition addresses the problems we all know exist.
 

Simon47

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You would think that folk would notice and stop using dodgy equipment automatically
Yeah, I've noticed that too.
I can't help thinking it's part of that "familiarity breeds contempt" issue. Everyone these days is used to electrical stuff being part of daily life and don't take a blind bit of interest in it as long as it works.
not really hard enough, it's a paperback...but a good substitute for the Women's Weekly (for those who remember Victoria Wood)
Ah, a true comedy genius. Sadly missed.
Ok, no more "next test due" (that was already changed anyway) but now it's up to the dutyholder to decide on a testing interval
I take it that's the no "next test due" on the sticker ?
IMO that's a really really stupid retrograde step. Without that, how is a user picking up an item to know whether it's in date or not ? I know there's an argument that items should never be out of date, but except for the very simplest of setups, there's no way on earth you can guarantee that - sometimes an item will be "missing", and often it'll turn up and go back into use when it's found at the back of a cupboard (etc).
I'll carry on putting next test due dates on stuff - partly because I've a large stock of stickers to use up !
Next rant is...Calibration. Not just for PA Testers, but it's a good example.
I do so little that I just use my MFT. I did forget to return the PAT when I left my last job, but that's playing up and it's not worth sending it in for service. I rely on my Calcard, and if someone wants to try and jsutify that both the calcard and MFT could go faulty at the same time, and in exactly the same (but opposite) proportions such that there's no change when checking - then I'll happily let them dig themselves into a hole.
 

Moley

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No next test date on the sticker is a weird situation. People see the test sticker and as there's no date they will just assume it's okay to use. On the other hand some would see the next date due and just assume it's fine to use as that date hasn't arrived yet.The problem is people just pick up and use. If there was a big cut in the cable, crack in the casing etc it would be a case of 'it's got a sticker. It's fine'. No matter what's on the sticker the idiots will use it. I'm glad the only testing I do is for our departments tools and as we all work in the power gen industry we all have a bit of common sense (apart from Jeff!!)
 

DPG

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No next test date on the sticker is a weird situation. People see the test sticker and as there's no date they will just assume it's okay to use. On the other hand some would see the next date due and just assume it's fine to use as that date hasn't arrived yet.The problem is people just pick up and use. If there was a big cut in the cable, crack in the casing etc it would be a case of 'it's got a sticker. It's fine'. No matter what's on the sticker the idiots will use it. I'm glad the only testing I do is for our departments tools and as we all work in the power gen industry we all have a bit of common sense (apart from Jeff!!)

Every place has a Jeff :)
 

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