When will Energy suppliers Use Proper Sparks

[Silver6003]

Here's one for you
Just did a job at the weekend for a friend of mine in his recently bought flat.
Needed to add a few double sockets and change various ceiling roses and switches also install a new fuseboard that had extra ways for his vision of a new layout for his flat .
No ring in the kitchen on the existing. So it was 1 ring in the flat I lighting circuit and one cooker circuit which had no cooker on it and a shower that i took out at his request . C/h being fed by the flat ring . Discussed his ideas for the future So knew I needed a bigger Board Which I ordered .
Come work day ( saturday just gone ) I duly plugged my martindale in the ring to get it bleeping so I could turn of the switchfuse ( that was a lucky break normally there's no switchfuse and its break the meter/main fuse seal to kill the supply for the board )
Imagine my surprise when my martindale flashed up live -neutral reverse I 'll need to check that i thought ..So I duly used the pulsing martindale to hear when it stopped I knew the board was dead and I could connect my temp board which is a Garage supply board 1 6 amp breaker 1 32 amp breaker protected by a rcd ..After connecting that in hey presto I still got my Fault on my temp board ...So after inspecting the outgoing cables on the meter THE METER SIDE OF THE SWITCHFUSE HAD THE LIVE AND NEUTRAL REVERSED . This meant whoever changed the meter totally got it wrong and the fuseboard supply was being fused at the neutral and a continuous live .....How the hell can these meter guys screw things up like this .THEY WILL KILL SOMEONE Anyone else have a similar situation ?
Also another little point ...Does no one do electrical survey's before they buy a dwelling these days ? This and another friend of mine ( did a little job for her found the cables older than me I'm 54 ...you know the scene Bare Earths everywhere Wylex old push button breakers ) Badly needs rewiring Cosmetically yes things look ok and work . However We know that underneath as soon as we see an old fuseboard the installation needs a rewire . If people did do a survey from the installation side I'm sure we could get the asking price down if we say ...It needs a rewire ..Anyway Your thoughts guys
Silver

 

[HandySparks]

Yes, I've come across reverse polarity supply. The error was at the output side of the meter. But it was the type with a built-in isolator and access to the output terminals without breaking the seals, so no way of telling who was responsible for the error.

It's unlikely the the switch fuse was fitted by the meter operator or the DNO, so it may not be the fault of the meter fitter.

 

[westward10]

Old board, rewire? Really?

 

[Silver6003]

Yes, I've come across reverse polarity supply. The error was at the output side of the meter. But it was the type with a built-in isolator and access to the output terminals without breaking the seals, so no way of telling who was responsible for the error.

It's unlikely the the switch fuse was fitted by the meter operator or the DNO, so it may not be the fault of the meter fitter.

It had to be though The Cables were double insulated Red /Black The markings were New Brown / blue at the meter ...There was evidence of a meter change The cables were Black at the meter side of the switchfuse on the neutral side and Red in the fuse at the meter side Yet they were reversed ...at the meter Therefore It had to be the meter installer Did old meters go Red/Black Red / Black ? New meters go Brown/blue blue/brown . The brown on the meter output was connected to the Neutral on the Switchfuse ....The Switchfuse is an old MEM type It was there before the meter so were the tails !!!! Bare earth on the 16mm2 outgoing feeding the fuseboard ....There fore Meter was newer than Switchfuse Therefore Meter man reversed the tails .....Of copuse it worked However meter man didn't check anything ...why would he in his mind it worked ....No meter man carries a martindale CAUSE THEY AIN'T SPARKS

 

[Silver6003]

Old board, rewire? Really?

yes I would advise that Bare earth cables everywhere. When do you draw the line To rewire or not to rewire When there's a fire ? Or that fishy smell only burning pvc can produce .....I'm not for job creation I'm for being safe

 

[westward10]

Certainly not for a few bare cpcs, if I did an EICR and the extent of the remedial works required outweighed the benefits of having it partially or completely rewired, maybe.

 

[Silver6003]

Well one has to weigh up the pros and cons and if the client has a budget to rewire ...What would you suggest if you found a Double fused Service head with the fuse rated at 30 amps Both Live and neutral being fused !!!!

 

[westward10]

That is the service head not the installation wiring. The wiring at my house is 45 to 50 years old, all checks out fine, replaced board 10 years ago, lashed in some additional outlets and changed all accessories and it is fine. If you had looked at my house 10 years ago you would have said rewire, look at it today you would say it is fine when it is essentially the same.

 

[Silver6003]

maybe who knows still its all irrelevant really . I've been involved in a job where I was told to replace an old board to a new one ...No one tested it I was just doing what I was told ..Lo and behold one of the RCD's wouldn't hold in ....Why ? After another day of testing there was a neutral to earth fault on a lighting circuit Something the old MCBS can't trip from ..Why the fault ? Cable was burnt in one of those old flourescent circular fittings and neutral was touching the metal which was earthed !!! . Case by case basis I suppose and Do a dead test to see if the cables stand up ....17th edition states the Last contractor on site has to inform their client about non complient Boards etc OR that was how I was taught . I think its confusing times atm None of our regs are compulsory or LAW yet we know putting in underated cables etc will cause a fire eventually .
As I said when do you rewire ? How old is old ? I've come across pendents with the old cloth cable not the trendy new stuff ...brittle cable if you even touch it will crumble in your hands . Old boards do not have RCD protection ...Prudence says its best to at least upgrade the fuseboard especially if you are installing say a shower or a new cooker ? What do you just put one new RCD shower board ? As I said it has to be a case by case basis however Old boards means old cable and that imo needs to be rewired if a client has the budget ...Saying that I've also come across installations that are down right dangerous and only been done a year !!!!

 

[westward10]

I agree it is case to case and yes if I installed a new circuit the board is getting replaced. A board which doesn't adhere to the 17th Edition doesn't necessarily need changing nor does "old" board mean old wiring and hence a rewire. The fact you had a fault in a light fitting was due to a poor install in the first place and not age of wiring.

 

[Pete999]

It had to be though The Cables were double insulated Red /Black The markings were New Brown / blue at the meter ...There was evidence of a meter change The cables were Black at the meter side of the switchfuse on the neutral side and Red in the fuse at the meter side Yet they were reversed ...at the meter Therefore It had to be the meter installer Did old meters go Red/Black Red / Black ? New meters go Brown/blue blue/brown . The brown on the meter output was connected to the Neutral on the Switchfuse ....The Switchfuse is an old MEM type It was there before the meter so were the tails !!!! Bare earth on the 16mm2 outgoing feeding the fuseboard ....There fore Meter was newer than Switchfuse Therefore Meter man reversed the tails .....Of copuse it worked However meter man didn't check anything ...why would he in his mind it worked ....No meter man carries a martindale CAUSE THEY AIN'T SPARKS

A Martindale socket tester for proving dead?

 

[DPG]

maybe who knows still its all irrelevant really . I've been involved in a job where I was told to replace an old board to a new one ...No one tested it I was just doing what I was told ..Lo and behold one of the RCD's wouldn't hold in ....Why ? After another day of testing there was a neutral to earth fault on a lighting circuit Something the old MCBS can't trip from ..Why the fault ? Cable was burnt in one of those old flourescent circular fittings and neutral was touching the metal which was earthed !!! . Case by case basis I suppose and Do a dead test to see if the cables stand up ....17th edition states the Last contractor on site has to inform their client about non complient Boards etc OR that was how I was taught . I think its confusing times atm None of our regs are compulsory or LAW yet we know putting in underated cables etc will cause a fire eventually .
As I said when do you rewire ? How old is old ? I've come across pendents with the old cloth cable not the trendy new stuff ...brittle cable if you even touch it will crumble in your hands . Old boards do not have RCD protection ...Prudence says its best to at least upgrade the fuseboard especially if you are installing say a shower or a new cooker ? What do you just put one new RCD shower board ? As I said it has to be a case by case basis however Old boards means old cable and that imo needs to be rewired if a client has the budget ...Saying that I've also come across installations that are down right dangerous and only been done a year !!!!

I'm not so sure about this one either.
Daz

 

[Midwest]

....................The wiring at my house is 45 to 50 years old, all checks out fine, replaced board 10 years ago, lashed in some additional outlets and changed all accessories and it is fine. If you had looked at my house 10 years ago you would have said rewire, look at it today you would say it is fine when it is essentially the same.

They always say mechanics cars are the most unroadworthy

 

[Des 56]

, Old boards means old cable and that imo needs to be rewired if a client has the budget ...Saying that I've also come across installations that are down right dangerous and only been done a year !!!!

The second part of your quoted post above would question your reasoning for the first part of the post

In my way of thinking,basing the condition of the wiring on the age of the consumer unit may often not result in a true reflection of the condition of that wiring
Pvc cabling and Vir cabling from an old board can have very different outcomes on the need for rewiring, though the consumer units may be equally aged

 

[7029 dave]

Here's one for you
Just did a job at the weekend for a friend of mine in his recently bought flat.
Needed to add a few double sockets and change various ceiling roses and switches also install a new fuseboard that had extra ways for his vision of a new layout for his flat .
No ring in the kitchen on the existing. So it was 1 ring in the flat I lighting circuit and one cooker circuit which had no cooker on it and a shower that i took out at his request . C/h being fed by the flat ring . Discussed his ideas for the future So knew I needed a bigger Board Which I ordered .
Come work day ( saturday just gone ) I duly plugged my martindale in the ring to get it bleeping so I could turn of the switchfuse ( that was a lucky break normally there's no switchfuse and its break the meter/main fuse seal to kill the supply for the board )
Imagine my surprise when my martindale flashed up live -neutral reverse I 'll need to check that i thought ..So I duly used the pulsing martindale to hear when it stopped I knew the board was dead and I could connect my temp board which is a Garage supply board 1 6 amp breaker 1 32 amp breaker protected by a rcd ..After connecting that in hey presto I still got my Fault on my temp board ...So after inspecting the outgoing cables on the meter THE METER SIDE OF THE SWITCHFUSE HAD THE LIVE AND NEUTRAL REVERSED . This meant whoever changed the meter totally got it wrong and the fuseboard supply was being fused at the neutral and a continuous live .....How the hell can these meter guys screw things up like this .THEY WILL KILL SOMEONE Anyone else have a similar situation ?
Also another little point ...Does no one do electrical survey's before they buy a dwelling these days ? This and another friend of mine ( did a little job for her found the cables older than me I'm 54 ...you know the scene Bare Earths everywhere Wylex old push button breakers ) Badly needs rewiring Cosmetically yes things look ok and work . However We know that underneath as soon as we see an old fuseboard the installation needs a rewire . If people did do a survey from the installation side I'm sure we could get the asking price down if we say ...It needs a rewire ..Anyway Your thoughts guys
Silver

When will Energy suppliers Use Proper Sparks You have just met one.