electric shower tripping

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neilyboy

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Been asked to find out why a new shower is tripping a new cu rcd,
new shower 9.8kw mira
supplied with 10mm T&E
40amp mcb protected by 63a RCD
Its a new cable thats been run in and I have no equipment to test the continuity etc I went right back to basics ,missed out the 45amp DP switch and it still tripped,then wired it straight into the DP isolator switch of the cu and the shower started straight away I should also say that this cu is fed from the main house but the shower did not trip the main cu.
The mira instructions say to fit a 30a rcd

Anyone any ideas ?

Ta
 
Thanks for the reply as I said I have no proper testing equipment I have a fluke ,continuity was fine with this,and yes you are right it is 30ma ....really should proof read posts I'll check the neutral is in the correct bar next time I'm out..
 
ok got that, would this occur even if the cu is split load ?
and if there is an N-E fault elsewhere why is this not tripping the rcd

things were much easier in the 70's sparky wise....a meggar for testing and a wire coat hanger and a piece of string with a plug chain for fishing cables...
 
A 41A load on a 40A ocpd is not a good start!
Without test equipment you are going to waste a lot of time and effort.

If I've read the op correctly, which I hope I haven't, you have bypassed the protective devices by connecting the circuit directly to the main switch of the CU?
 
Think you've read it right Dave, if not we both need to learn to read. That's how I read it as well.

I don't really understand going to look for a fault without test equipment either, maybe I'm getting too old for this.
 
Really should take more notice but I was more concerned theat the rcd was tripping and didnt (or cant )remember if both had tripped I have a feeling the the mcb is 40a as it was one of those pre-populated CU's that he bought
and Ive just done a quick calc for a 9.8kw appliance and its 40.833333333a...
 
In reply to the above ,I'm doing a pal a favour in trying to find the fault, the original installer is not returning his calls
I think some of the problems have arisen due to my pal buying the materials himself to save money.
and ..FYI I don't have any test equipment as I've been effectively off the tools since 1986..save for the odd light fitting and extra socket
 
yes I agree but we didnt have all the all singing and dancing equipment in the late seventies /early eighties it was a case of disconnecting everything and starting from the cu ....
we only had one megger between two of us when on the tools, I completed a pyro installation and the only way I could bell out the cores was to connect to to the supply and hope that the cores had sealed properly and the pot was on straight...
 
You don't need anything all seeing & dancing just an Insulation tester & maybe a Clamp meter to check Earth leakage.
If the installer left it like that though, you have to wonder what else you might find.
 
neilyboy said:
Been asked to find out why a new shower is tripping a new cu rcd,
new shower 9.8kw mira
supplied with 10mm T&E
40amp mcb protected by 63a RCD
Its a new cable thats been run in and I have no equipment to test the continuity etc I went right back to basics ,missed out the 45amp DP switch and it still tripped,then wired it straight into the DP isolator switch of the cu and the shower started straight away I should also say that this cu is fed from the main house but the shower did not trip the main cu.
The mira instructions say to fit a 30a rcd

Anyone any ideas ?

Ta
Click to expand...
Well wiring it into the CU M/S and it wont trip, cus there is nothing to trip
 
I dont have a megger, I have a fluke, Installation practices of 40 odd years ago are still practiced today,its the way they are installed ie bad workmanship that cause the problems,wiring systems have not changed since I was on the tools but certain regs have,earthing,testing,circuit discrimination I could go on but ultimately most of it is down to bad practice.
I would have had my a**e booted from my journeyman for some of the installations I have seen
 
davesparks said:
You don't need all singing, all dancing test gear, the vast majority of fault finding jobs can be done with a simple megger.

There's a good reason that the practices of 40odd years ago are no longer acceptable, they are dangerous and have been responsible for many injuries.
Click to expand...
Megger Dave tut tut next you will be telling us you use a Hoover:D
 
Specialist said:
????? To the above.

When you say you've got a Fluke, do you mean a multimeter ?
Click to expand...
yes, yes...but fluke were the gold standard in my days multi meters are available for less than a tenner these days
Specialist said:
????? To the above.

When you say you've got a Fluke, do you mean a multimeter ?
Click to expand...
not sure what the ???? are but if we needed to test an installation we asked for the megger not the insulation resistance tester it came in a nice grey leather case and had a wind up handle
 
yes ..just clicked, I suppose all forums on tinternet are the same...I'll leave you all now and get on with the rest of my life (retired public sector :)

But thanks for the help
N
 
The question marks were in reply to your post about knowing what they were called, after Westy joked about Dave telling us to use Hoovers.

As for the fluke, don't really think it's going to help you out here.

Yep know all about wind up Meggers, still had one until a short time ago. Cut my teeth with fault finding using a Drummond probe, Avo 8 & Megger. The Avo & Megger had to be signed in / out of stores every time.
Oh & don't forget the ubiquitous neon screwdriver.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wonder if the OP is charging for this?

So its a recent install, the customer bought the kit, the installer isn't returning calls, the OCPD may be too low, we don't know if the RCD or MCB are tripping.

We do know the person fault finding doesn't have the appropriate kit.

Has it ever worked?

Did the installer provide a cert?

Wonderful!
 
Q
Murdoch said:
Wonder if the OP is charging for this?

So its a recent install, the customer bought the kit, the installer isn't returning calls, the OCPD may be too low, we don't know if the RCD or MCB are tripping.

We do know the person fault finding doesn't have the appropriate kit.

Has it ever worked?

Did the installer provide a cert?

Wonderful!
Click to expand...

Same old story buddy, nothing changes :)
 
Murdoch said:
Wonder if the OP is charging for this?

So its a recent install, the customer bought the kit, the installer isn't returning calls, the OCPD may be too low, we don't know if the RCD or MCB are tripping.

We do know the person fault finding doesn't have the appropriate kit.

Has it ever worked?

Did the installer provide a cert?

Wonderful!
Click to expand...
1.no, i have a pension i dont need to charge
2.ok i should have taken notice of this
3.ministry of bleeding obvious....new install tripping...course its never worked
4.of course not he's disappeared with his money
As a long time ex sparky i enjoy reading most of these threads to try and keep up but some of you guys and your replys just fill me with dismay with the sarkiness and all round General contempt you treat genuine querys. unless i
 
^^ you read this forum regularly yet start a thread full of holes.... Are you real?

Your "friend" needs to report this chancer to trading standards, the employ a reputable spark with current practice, skills, expertise, and test kit
 
Murdoch said:
^^ you read this forum regularly yet start a thread full of holes.... Are you real?

Your "friend" needs to report this chancer to trading standards, the employ a reputable spark with current practice, skills, expertise, and test kit
Click to expand...
Yes i am real
And what holes
,why do you feel the need to put friend in inverted commas
 
@neilyboy: In your original post you said that you were looking for a fault on a 9.8 kW shower, that was fed via a 40a MCB & 63a rcd which trips when the shower is turned on.
You have no test equipment & decided to fault find by first bypassing the switch, then connecting the shower to the incoming mains supply. Neither of which are safe or recognised fault finding techniques, then come here & ask for help.
You were given the most probable causes by telectrix & others in the first few replies you got. The people who've taken the time to reply to you, do this job day in / out & get annoyed when people use dangerous practices to try to find a fault. So yes you will get sarcastic & contemptuous replies.
My best suggestion to you now would be to tell your friend to contact a proper electrician in, who has the correct knowledge & equipment to find and clear the fault safely.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
As an ex electrician you should surely appreciate that proper test equipment is required to find a fault such as this, and also understand that just because the shower appears to work when the RCD is removed it doesn't mean it is working correctly or safely?
 
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