Kitchen rewire (refurbishment)

[Fitzy]

Hi Guys

Newbie here.

I’m newly qualified and my nieces partner who does building work, extensions, kitchen refurbs etc is going to put some work my way, so I can start gaining some experience, but I can’t find an answer to whether a room rewire i.e. kitchen refurb using the original CU & MCB’s isnotifiable or not! In my eyes it’s NOT notifiable as I’m not technically adding a new circuit, just upgrading (modifying) the cabling.....

 

[telectrix]

correct. it' would only be notifiable if you were changing the CU or adding a new circuit. (bathrooms excepted, as all work there is notifiable ). still need to complete a EIC (MWC usually in your case).

 

[Andy78]

You should download approved document P to become familiar with the requirements if you are starting doing domestic work.
Here are the works that are notifiable in England though

 

[Midwest]

Part P Building Regs (England) states notifiable work is;

• installation of a new circuit
• replacement of consumer unit
• addition or alteration to existing circuits in a special location

So you might think you're in the clear. However, when completing a compliance certification, it mentions a rewire or partial rewire, as does the competent persons web site; The Regulations Explained - http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/Regulations-Explained

So if in your kitchen, circuits are rewired, they are suggesting perhaps that is a new circuit. Tin hat on!

 

[Andy78]

It would be common on a kitchen refurb to run a new circuit in for appliances. A new circuit installed using an existing CU and even existing existing switchgear devices would be a new circuit and notifiable.
Might be a sticky point if you get onto a refurb that requires a new circuit.

 

[Fitzy]

Thanks for your replies guys, much appreciated, I’ve alresdy got my C&G Part “P” qualification, just need to get registered with one of the schemes. Would the electrical building control fee be payable separately or already included in the fees my nieces partner has already paid in the refurb plans?

 

[Midwest]

There is no Part P qualification, just a course on how to read a publication

 

[Andy78]

There is no Part P qualification, just a course on how to read a publication

Hold your horses there, I have recently heard otherwise. (or at least that is what it is being called)


What certs do you have @Fitzy ?

 

[Midwest]

Would the electrical building control fee be payable separately or already included in the fees my nieces partner has already paid in the refurb plans?

Would that be Building Regs or Planning approval for the refurbishment? If so the LBC would be looking for either a Compliance Certificate or prior application for the electrical work, if we agree the work is notifiable. (Or even third party certification!)

 

[Midwest]

Hold your horses there, I have recently heard otherwise. (or at least that is what it is being called)

Come on Andy, I've waited patiently

 

[telectrix]

if planning control are involved ( e.g. the kitchen is an extension ) then you should only need to give them a copy of the cert. you don't need to be in a scam. they'd probably need a copy of you quals. 17th etc.

 

[Spoon]

There is no Part P qualification, just a course on how to read a publication

True, but you could say the same about C+G 2382 couldn't you?

 

[Andy78]

Come on Andy, I've waited patiently

The 2393 is the building regs reading course, but there is a 2397 which basically an all one domestic installer course designed to meet the requirements of part P scheme membership. It's referred to as a part P qual.
I think it's to save centres offering a hotch potch bundle of certs.

 

[Midwest]

True, but you could say the same about C+G 2382 couldn't you?

I'll have you know I found my quite taxing.

 

[Midwest]

The 2393 is the building regs reading course, but there is a 2397 which basically an all one domestic installer course designed to meet the requirements of part P scheme membership. It's referred to as a part P qual.
I think it's to save centres offering a hotch potch bundle of certs.

But that still won't give stop you being in a scheme, if that's your main income?

 

[Leesparkykent]

I'll have you know I found my quite taxing.

Behave.....

 

[Midwest]

if planning control are involved ( e.g. the kitchen is an extension ) then you should only need to give them a copy of the cert. you don't need to be in a scam. they'd probably need a copy of you quals. 17th etc.

I've never tested that with my LBC, although I've heard others here suggesting that's what they do, being on a one to one with a building inspector.

Just doesn't fit with the examples given in sec 3.1 Part P.

 

[Fitzy]

Hold your horses there, I have recently heard otherwise. (or at least that is what it is being called)

What certs do you have @Fitzy ?

I’ve just completed City & Guilds 2393 Part P, 2392-10 Inspecting & Testing and 2382-15 17th Edition Wiring Regs, I’m now on the looooong learning curve of gaining experience, hence why I’m only going to be doing small jobs to start with, not gonna run before I can walk. Obviously I’m gonna need some big jobs for my assessment to join one of the schemes. I suppose at first I’m gonna have to take the hit on the BC fees as you can’t pass these on to the customers, that’s why I thought my nieces partner would come inhandy if he’s already paid the BC fees on the whole job.

 

[Fitzy]

Hold your horses there, I have recently heard otherwise. (or at least that is what it is being called)

What certs do you have @Fitzy ?

I’ve just completed City & Guilds 2393 Part P, 2392-10 Inspecting & Testing and 2382-15 17th Edition Wiring Regs, I’m now on the looooong learning curve of gaining experience, hence why I’m only going to be doing small jobs to start with, not gonna run before I can walk. Obviously I’m gonna need some big jobs for my assessment to join one of the schemes. I suppose at first I’m gonna have to take the hit on the BC fees as you can’t pass these on to the customers, that’s why I thought my nieces partner would come inhandy if he’s already paid the BC fees on the whole job.

 

[Midwest]

Behave.....

Well when you consider, I hadn't done any testing in 30 years, and my last testing device was a bell & battery, it was pretty new to me

 

[Midwest]

I’ve just completed City & Guilds 2393 Part P, 2392-10 Inspecting & Testing and 2382-15 17th Edition Wiring Regs, I’m now on the looooong learning curve of gaining experience, hence why I’m only going to be doing small jobs to start with, not gonna run before I can walk. Obviously I’m gonna need some big jobs for my assessment to join one of the schemes. I suppose at first I’m gonna have to take the hit on the BC fees as you can’t pass these on to the customers, that’s why I thought my nieces partner would come inhandy if he’s already paid the BC fees on the whole job.

Schemes don't require 'big jobs' for a domestic installer. I would echo the advice of working with others to start. I came back into the industry after a 30 year break. I subbied to another contractor for a year or so, before I felt comfortable to work on my own.

 

[Midwest]

I suppose at first I’m gonna have to take the hit on the BC fees as you can’t pass these on to the customers, that’s why I thought my nieces partner would come inhandy if he’s already paid the BC fees on the whole job.

You might wanna check out the price of those fees, they are not cheap.

 

[Fitzy]

You might wanna check out the price of those fees, they are not cheap.

I checked the BC fees where I live in the Reigate & Banstead area and electrical work is £306 plus VAT.....OUCH!!! That’s more than what I’ve seen other sparkies charging for a complete CU change.....

 

[Fitzy]

By the way, thanks for the replies and warm welcome.

 

[Midwest]

You could see if you could assist your > nieces > partners > electrician (if you see what I'm saying), when doing his/hers refurbishments & building work, in the short term.

Then when you have become more competent or comfortable, you can do the electricians legs in, and do all the work yourself.

 

[telectrix]

first thing would be to check with BC to see if they will accept your quals. and cert. without the need for them to charge their exorbitant fee. if they will, then you're home free. ( as regards your niece's job).

 

[Midwest]

first thing would be to check with BC to see if they will accept your quals. and cert. without the need for them to charge their exorbitant fee. if they will, then you're home free. ( as regards your niece's job).

Fitzy, someone posted this before;
Electrician Competence Recognition - The IET - https://www.------.org/policy/collaboration/sa4e/index.cfm?
Duno if it would help?

 

[Spoon]

I'll have you know I found my quite taxing.

I haven't done the Part P exam so I can't compare it to the 2328.

 

[telectrix]

or even the 2382.

 

[Spoon]

Well when you consider, I hadn't done any testing in 30 years, and my last testing device was a bell & battery, it was pretty new to me

The course I was on, quite a few years ago, two guys failed it. They worked in the business but just didn't like tests.. Pity really.

 

[telectrix]

The course I was on, quite a few years ago, two guys failed it. They worked in the business but just didn't like tests.. Pity really.

all is not lost. i failed my "swim a length of the baths" certificate, but i didn't drown.

 

[Spoon]

....but i didn't drown.

is that cause you still had your arm bands on...

 

[Midwest]

I haven't done the Part P exam so I can't compare it to the 2328.

Oooooh the 2382, thought you said the 2392. I find all these numbers confusing.

I did the 2393 as well. Could of saved me-self £180

 

[Midwest]

all is not lost. i failed my "swim a length of the baths" certificate, but i didn't drown.

Looks like you swam back the other way as well

 

[Spoon]

Oooooh the 2382, thought you said the 2392. I find all these numbers confusing.

Only one digit out mate.
At least you aren't as bad as me, who totally misread a post title recently..

 

[Midwest]

The course I was on, quite a few years ago, two guys failed it. They worked in the business but just didn't like tests.. Pity really.

When I did my 2382 I mean 2392, they put me with Arthur. Bloody nice bloke, bit older than me, well lot older actually about Tel's age. You had to share the test board, and he was a friggin disaster. Kept putting me off. Final day when we had our individual tests, I could see he was struggling. He had to stay behind after class. Bet he past in the end though

 

[telectrix]

passed.

 

[Spoon]

wind...

 

[telectrix]

try this :

 

[Octopus]

I checked the BC fees where I live in the Reigate & Banstead area and electrical work is £306 plus VAT.....OUCH!!! That’s more than what I’ve seen other sparkies charging for a complete CU change.....

I doubt decent sparks are charging less than that for a proper cu change ..

 

[Toneyz]

The electrical part can be included in the total fee by B.C. Did the previous addition of part P you had to notify work done in kitchens as if it has been taken out in the past Kitchen fitters was one of the culprits of bad electrical installations.Regarding getting qualified I have always taken the view that academic learning went hand in hand with on the job practical training.