Breaker GFCI AFCI

[FRT2015]

Hi Everyone,

I have a question regarding GFCI AFCI Breakers in my main panel. I have a Siemens residential household box with QP breakers. I wanted to replace a standard one with a GFCI AFCI Breaker. I noticed that the cable conduit that houses that circuit has a black, red, and white wire. The Red wire goes to the breaker load and the white goes to the neutral bar. The Black wire in the same conduit goes to the load on the breaker below that one.

So what I did was replace the breaker with the red load wire with the GFCI Breaker and moved the white neutral from the bar to the GFCI AFCI breaker and then took the white pigtail on the breaker and moved it to the neutral bar. The issue that I am finding is that I can't have power on to both that breaker and the normal breaker below it that share the 1 wire in the conduit.

Are there suggestions to handle this situation? Both worked fine with when using normal breakers but I can't figure out how to use the GFCI AFCI breaker in this scenario.

Thanks for the input
Jake

 

[pc1966]

Can you post a photograph?

I suspect that the white (your neutral?) is being shared with loads on both the red and black. This would cause a current imbalance as seen by the GFCI and so it trips.

The 'simple' solution in which case needs all three need to come from a 2-pole GFCI breaker, but that has other issues if they are different current ratings and/or need to be separate for isolation or fault-tolerance reasons.

If either of those apply, then there is no simple fix as you would need separate neutrals, and of course that would also prevent having a 220V load between the two 'hot' wires.

But other with more knowledge of the USA system should be better able to comment!

 

[FRT2015]

You are correct that the neutral is being shared with loads on both the red and black.
That is interesting about what you mention for buying a 2 pole breaker. I wonder if that would be acceptable for code?

 

[pc1966]

I really can't comment on that area, you would need to ask an American professional electrician about that sort of thing.
[automerge]1588003973[/automerge]
You might be lucky and find someone here who knows! But you might need to provide more information on what those circuits are for and what is currently set up in the way of breakers.

 

[Megawatt]

Hi Everyone,

I have a question regarding GFCI AFCI Breakers in my main panel. I have a Siemens residential household box with QP breakers. I wanted to replace a standard one with a GFCI AFCI Breaker. I noticed that the cable conduit that houses that circuit has a black, red, and white wire. The Red wire goes to the breaker load and the white goes to the neutral bar. The Black wire in the same conduit goes to the load on the breaker below that one.

So what I did was replace the breaker with the red load wire with the GFCI Breaker and moved the white neutral from the bar to the GFCI AFCI breaker and then took the white pigtail on the breaker and moved it to the neutral bar. The issue that I am finding is that I can't have power on to both that breaker and the normal breaker below it that share the 1 wire in the conduit.

Are there suggestions to handle this situation? Both worked fine with when using normal breakers but I can't figure out how to use the GFCI AFCI breaker in this scenario.

Thanks for the input
Jake

Frt when you say the red goes to one breaker and the black goes to the breaker below the other one. That sounds like a 240vac double pole breaker, is them 2 breakers attached with a slide. It sounds like you are wiring the breaker right on the neutral

 

[FRT2015]

It is not a 2 pole breaker. The red goes to a single pole breaker and the black goes to a single pole breaker below it. The one shared white wire goes to the neutral bar. **That is how it was before investigating how to add the GFCI AFCI breaker in place of the non protected breakers. I know Siemens makes a 2 pole CAFCI breaker but I don't think that will also serve the Ground Fault protection that I am looking for.

 

[Megawatt]

It is not a 2 pole breaker. The red goes to a single pole breaker and the black goes to a single pole breaker below it. The one shared white wire goes to the neutral bar. **That is how it was before investigating how to add the GFCI AFCI breaker in place of the non protected breakers. I know Siemens makes a 2 pole CAFCI breaker but I don't think that will also serve the Ground Fault protection that I am looking for.

Since you are just installing an AFCI I guess the red wire serves a different circuit and sharing a neutral which is a violation of the NEC