I want a 16 amp socket in the garage with 3 double sockets

[DomSal]

I have a 4mm2 armored cable going from the CU in the house, under the drive and into the garage. The breaker for this is a 16 amp type B. I want to have 2.2KW planer machine in the garage that has a 16 amp plug whilst also keeping three existing double sockets in the garage. The three double sockets are currently daisy chained (radial connection?) using 2.5mm2 cable.

Should I have another CU installed in the garage that is fed by the existing armored cable and have the new 16Amp socket on a separate breaker (type C breaker is recommended by manufacturer)? The lighting and sockets could then be on their own breakers too.

Should I (can I) increase the breaker in the house CU and by how much?

Should the socket wiring should be upgraded to 4mm2 as it is not in a ring?

 

[ChipFanDave]

Change 16A plug to 13A plug and plug it into one of the sockets you have already.

 

[DomSal]

Change 16A plug to 13A plug and plug it into one of the sockets you have already.

Oh, really, I assumed this could overload the 13 Amp socket.

 

[littlespark]

Without knowing exactly how things are wired here.... This is presuming a few things.

Your 4mm armoured could be protected by a 32A breaker.
In the garage, fit a garage CU with separate breakers for lighting, general power and your planer.
The planer, at 2.2kW is 9 and a bit amps.... but the startup current could be more than 13. Put this on a 16A circuit on its own.
your general sockets in the garage could be on a 16A radial

General sockets need to be RCD protected, so an RCD mainswitch in garage CU.


This work is a little more advanced than basic diy electrics, so please consider getting an electrician to do it

 

[ChipFanDave]

Oh, really, I assumed this could overload the 13 Amp socket.

2.2KW less than 10A. Don't use the other socket in the twin outlet if you are concerned, they are rated to maximum 20A the pair.

 

[DomSal]

Without knowing exactly how things are wired here.... This is presuming a few things.

Your 4mm armoured could be protected by a 32A breaker.
In the garage, fit a garage CU with separate breakers for lighting, general power and your planer.
The planer, at 2.2kW is 9 and a bit amps.... but the startup current could be more than 13. Put this on a 16A circuit on its own.
your general sockets in the garage could be on a 16A radial

General sockets need to be RCD protected, so an RCD mainswitch in garage CU.


This work is a little more advanced than basic diy electrics, so please consider getting an electrician to do it

Thanks for your reply. The CU in the house is RCD protected so I guess I don't need an RCD in the garage too. Would I be correct in thinking that I only need to uprate the house CU breaker to the garage if it keeps tripping due to overload? I was thinking to maybe install a 20 Amp type C in the house CU that will feed the garage CU.

 

[ChipFanDave]

Thanks for your reply. The CU in the house is RCD protected so I guess I don't need an RCD in the garage too. Would I be correct in thinking that I only need to uprate the house CU breaker to the garage if it keeps tripping due to overload? I was thinking to maybe install a 20 Amp type C in the house CU that will feed the garage CU.

Changing the MCB in your house would require testing and a certificate, which you are not qualified or registered to issue (I'm not suggesting you are incompetent or no good at DIY this is a legal issue with knock on effect to insurance). In theory this could cost you several hundred pounds to do legally.

Or you could change the plug to a 13A one.

 

[DomSal]

Changing the MCB in your house would require testing and a certificate, which you are not qualified or registered to issue (I'm not suggesting you are incompetent or no good at DIY this is a legal issue with knock on effect to insurance). In theory this could cost you several hundred pounds to do legally.

Or you could change the plug to a 13A one.

I see, OK thank you.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I want to have 2.2KW planer machine

Change 16A plug to 13A plug... 2.2kW less than 10A.

I think we need clarification of the machine's rated line current (noting that this will be with the machine working at full mechanical load which you might not need).

If the input is 2.2kW then indeed it is less than 13A although not necesarily less than 10A. If we assume the power factor is 0.8 then the input is 2.2/0.8=2.75kVA and the current 2750/230=12A. If they have suggested a C-type breaker, starting current might stress or blow a 13A fuse

If the machine has 'a 2.2kW motor' then that is the mechanical output power, i.e. 3 hp in old money, and on 230V the line current is likely to be the full 16A.

 

[ChipFanDave]

I think we need clarification of the machine's rated line current (noting that this will be with the machine working at full mechanical load which you might not need).

If the input is 2.2kW then indeed it is less than 13A although not necesarily less than 10A. If we assume the power factor is 0.8 then the input is 2.2/0.8=2.75kVA and the current 2750/230=12A. If they have suggested a C-type breaker, starting current might stress or blow a 13A fuse

If the machine has 'a 2.2kW motor' then that is the mechanical output power, i.e. 3 hp in old money, and on 230V the line current is likely to be the full 16A.

I agree but would add that most Single phase planers are rated for P1 2.2KW P2 1.6-1.8KW.

A rating plate photo or manufacturers info would be ideal.

 

[DomSal]

I agree but would add that most Single phase planers are rated for P1 2.2KW P2 1.6-1.8KW.

A rating plate photo or manufacturers info would be ideal.

I can't find any more info on the motor. It is the Axminster AT260SPT. I downloaded the manual but it doesn't say.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

most Single phase planers are rated for P1 2.2KW P2 1.6-1.8KW.

Ah good, thanks for the info, not something I'm familiar with specifically.

 

[TheatreSparks]

The manufacturer's website specifies a 16A Supply on a Type C breaker is required. Manual states the load at 3KW, so with a inrush current it would both stress a 13a fuse and likely take out a type B MCB especially if there are other items plugged into the garage supply, so yes I would agree that a up-rating of the house MCB and a mini consumer unit looks as if it is in order.

 

[Rockingit]

That model uses an induction motor and has a large in-rush, hence the 16C. Ordinarily I'd suggest simply adding a 16A outlet onto the existing circuit however you'd still need to uprate the upstream OCPD to a C type regardless of any conversation about re-wiring and adding a small consumer unit. You'll only be able to know if you can upgrade the upstream from a B to a C if you can still achieve disconnection times for ADS which will ultimately depend on how long and well installed the existing house > garage cable is - for this you'll need to perform a Zs test.

 

[DomSal]

That model uses an induction motor and has a large in-rush, hence the 16C. Ordinarily I'd suggest simply adding a 16A outlet onto the existing circuit however you'd still need to uprate the upstream OCPD to a C type regardless of any conversation about re-wiring and adding a small consumer unit. You'll only be able to know if you can upgrade the upstream from a B to a C if you can still achieve disconnection times for ADS which will ultimately depend on how long and well installed the existing house > garage cable is - for this you'll need to perform a Zs test.

Thank you for the information. They say that type C is 'recommended' but they don't say it is a necessity. If my type B breaker doesn't trip does this mean I'm OK to use it with the planer?

 

[Fiskey878]

I want to do the same, my ring main comes from my house into my adjoining garage then back in to the house. If the last socket on the ring main is in the garage, can I just disconnect one of the cables pull back to the 16A commando unit then put a leg back to the socket so it’s just added in like an extra socket? It’s in a 32a breaker, the 16a plug is a belt grinder and the motor is 1.5kw which has a lead not earthed! with no fuse but 3 pin plug. It keeps blowing the fuse on the extension cable I’ve got it plugged into when it starts up, this doesn’t happen all the time but it’s on start up the times it has. Don’t want to try anymore! Any help much appreciated

 

[loz2754]

I want to do the same, my ring main comes from my house into my adjoining garage then back in to the house. If the last socket on the ring main is in the garage, can I just disconnect one of the cables pull back to the 16A commando unit then put a leg back to the socket so it’s just added in like an extra socket? It’s in a 32a breaker, the 16a plug is a belt grinder and the motor is 1.5kw which has a lead not earthed! with no fuse but 3 pin plug. It keeps blowing the fuse on the extension cable I’ve got it plugged into when it starts up, this doesn’t happen all the time but it’s on start up the times it has. Don’t want to try anymore! Any help much appreciated

No. A ring final circuit is designed only for BS1363 sockets and other accessories.
A 16A socket is not a BS1363 accessory, and cannot be used in the way you suggest.
The reason being, there is no fuse in a 16A plug.

 

[Fiskey878]

No. A ring final circuit is designed only for BS1363 sockets and other accessories.
A 16A socket is not a BS1363 accessory, and cannot be used in the way you suggest.
The reason being, there is no fuse in a 16A plug.

Yes but the ring only goes out into the garage now so what if I reduce the breaker to a 20amp will that then not be ok? Or I could split it out there and have 2 radial circuits I suppose? Thanks for getting back anyway

 

[Julie.]

Yes but the ring only goes out into the garage now so what if I reduce the breaker to a 20amp will that then not be ok? Or I could split it out there and have 2 radial circuits I suppose? Thanks for getting back anyway

There are two reasons why the industrial 16A socket is not permitted in residential, the first is that standard accessories have an integral fuse because of the normal 32A mcb protection on a ring, but fitting the 16A outlet on a single radial circuit on a 16A mcb solves this.

However the most critical reason is that all equipment for residential has protection against small fingers and poking! Usually via shutters, take the standard 13A outlet as an example; this just isn't present with the 16A or 32A industrial equipment outlets, in this case a child or adult could easily come in direct contact with live conductors. (Think of a small piece of swarf or similar)

There is a workaround, because although the standard indicates that bs1363 sockets must be used, you are allowed to substitute other equipment provided it provides no less protection.

A standard 16A outlet does not meet this requirement, but there are 16A outlets and plugs with interlocking, these have an isolator switch.

In this case when a suitable plug is inserted the switch may be switched on, but then the plug cannot be removed, without a plug in, the switch cannot be turned on.

This would provide the required level of protection provided it is supplied by a 16A mcb.

 

[Fiskey878]

There are two reasons why the industrial 16A socket is not permitted in residential, the first is that standard accessories have an integral fuse because of the normal 32A mcb protection on a ring, but fitting the 16A outlet on a single radial circuit on a 16A mcb solves this.

However the most critical reason is that all equipment for residential has protection against small fingers and poking! Usually via shutters, take the standard 13A outlet as an example; this just isn't present with the 16A or 32A industrial equipment outlets, in this case a child or adult could easily come in direct contact with live conductors. (Think of a small piece of swarf or similar)

There is a workaround, because although the standard indicates that bs1363 sockets must be used, you are allowed to substitute other equipment provided it provides no less protection.

A standard 16A outlet does not meet this requirement, but there are 16A outlets and plugs with interlocking, these have an isolator switch.

In this case when a suitable plug is inserted the switch may be switched on, but then the plug cannot be removed, without a plug in, the switch cannot be turned on.

This would provide the required level of protection provided it is supplied by a 16A mcb.

Thank you very much. I did get a commando unit that has the switch with protection and it’s going on 16amp mcb. All is solved! All that and it’s only a 1500w motor