12v MR16 to LED

[polo1]

Hi guys, this feels like a bit of a "simple simon" question and despite having fitted hundreds of down lights, don't think I've done this before...

Customer changed existing 12v MR16 lamps for MR 4.5w leds. Didn't change the transformers though and is suffering from the leds flickering when on. She's keen to keep the existing MR leds 'cos "they cost me a fortune".

What I'm unsure of is do I have to put a driver at each downlight or is there a simple way to use one driver of sufficient capacity - a 50w driver would cover the total led load? Alternative is to use new GU10 leds and just change the lampholders and diss the trannies.
Haven't seen how the existing lights are fed/wired. Views?
Thanks
PS no dimmer involved

 

[Guest77]

A common problem, LEDs do need a driver, if it is possible for you to join all the cabling so you could use one driver then that would be fine, however I actually prefer to have 3-4 max on one driver, even better one per driver, that said I have led lighting in my loft conversion and it is all run by one driver.

 

[polo1]

Cheers, that was what I was thinking, but for some reason was convincing myself I was missing something. As noted, I've to check out how the existing is wired - really high ceiling, with a massive roll top bath in the middle of the floor. Access is gonna be fun!

 

[Richard Burns]

The problem with a single driver is that if it fails then all the lights go out. However this is no different to a single pendant failing.
If you can find where the supply comes in and feed the single driver from the incoming supply and switched line then all you would need to do is remove the transformers at each light and use the existing 230V cabling (if it is suitably installed) as 12V cabling.
Dependent on the height of the ceiling the ELV sections may then be fairly long and this is not recommended from an interference point of view, but that would be your judgement as you can see the installation.

 

[elliot123]

Had a similar problem just got rid of the transformers and put gu10 lamp holders bit longer than replacing the bulb but much easier than put drivers and everything in

 

[Marvo]

If the existing fittings each have a transformer you may not be meeting the minimum load requirement of those transformers with the new LED lamps. Try running multiple lamps from a single transformer, you may find the flickering stops.

 

[underdog]

An led driver or more specifically, a 12vdc transformer. Usually rated in max watts or amp. Make sure the total watts exceed the minimum rated for the 12vdc psu.

 

[nickblake]

An led driver or more specifically, a 12vdc transformer. Usually rated in max watts or amp. Make sure the total watts exceed the minimum rated for the 12vdc psu.

And the reason under dog has stated DC is because halogen transformers are AC and led lamps are DC

 

[polo1]

Guys, sorry for the delay in responding - thanks for the views/advice. I've offered the customer options of driver(s) or GU10 leds (including putting the original 12v MR16 back in!).
Regards.

 

[Octopus]

I''d suggest they go for GU10 lamps so theres less parts to go wrong....

 

[polo1]

Exactly what I recommended (but I can tell she's mithering about the "wasted" money on the MR16 leds!)

 

[Octopus]

Exactly what I recommended (but I can tell she's mithering about the "wasted" money on the MR16 leds!)

Did she buy them?

 

[telectrix]

Did she buy them?

nah. they fell off a christmas tree. :ciappa:

 

[polo1]

Did she buy them?

Yep, I only got involved as I was doing an EICR on a flat she rents out. The leds had been bought, installed and flickering before I turned up.

 

[Guitarist]

Yep, I only got involved as I was doing an EICR on a flat she rents out. The leds had been bought, installed and flickering before I turned up.

So she just thought they were like-for-like?

 

[Octopus]

So she just thought they were like-for-like?

In fairness to the OP's client - I've never seen an advert for MR16 LED's which "warns" about the transformers - I reckon the client would be able to send them back for a credit!

 

[Guitarist]

In fairness to the OP's client - I've never seen an advert for MR16 LED's which "warns" about the transformers - I reckon the client would be able to send them back for a credit!

I agree mate. I get this all the time, especially with dimmer switches and LED's. The ads make it sound so easy...

 

[shanky887614]

In fairness to the OP's client - I've never seen an advert for MR16 LED's which "warns" about the transformers - I reckon the client would be able to send them back for a credit!

to be fair under the distant selling regs she has time to send them back and they were miss sold because most dont even now there 12v etc.

they just see mr16 ah it must be them

 

[Ben Hopkins]

Hi, yes depends where and when she bought the lights. If she bought them off the internet most reputable retailers will take them back. We always recommend swapping out existing MR16's for GU10's where possible.

GU10 LEDs are often cheaper, easier to install and a lot more reliable than MR16s. However saying that most branded LED MR16s have drivers on board and are designed to retrofit with a existing transformers (although this is very patchy), if you find out the brand of the MR16 then it is likely the manufacturer will have a list of compatible transformers which will work with the lamps.