17th Edition On-site Guide - number of sockets in a room

[DNS1]

Hi guys,

I'm about to do a kitchen for my girlfriend, going to be a full renovation job including re-wire.

The room is an extension which is currently (and will remain) on it's own ring with a 32A circuit breaker, 2.5mm T+E and RCD protected.

Been familiarising myself with OSG appendix 8.7, which says that this small kitchen should have a minimum of 6 twin socket outlets.

Can someone clarify whether this number is "guidance" or a regulation. 12 sockets seems a little over the top to me.

I'd been planning on having 4 double wall-sockets above the counter-top, as well as a pair of single sockets below for the fridge and freezer (which presumably would count as an additional double socket). Is it really necessary for me to provide another double socket in order to be compliant?

 

[telectrix]

the no. of sockets specified in the bgb is for guidance, on a small kitchen you would not need that many. common sense rules here.

 

[ruston]

It's just guidance, it's up to the designer , the requirements and the practicalities how many outlets you will need.

 

[DNS1]

Thanks for the help guys.

I assumed it was guidance only, but new to the game so a bit paranoid!

Happy new year!

 

[ruston]

Thanks for the help guys.

I assumed it was guidance only, but new to the game so a bit paranoid!

Happy new year!

You too mate.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

how many more times.....the BGB and the OSG are GUIDANCE NOTES......they aint statutary.....so why cant folk use there own intuition on something like this??......a small kitchen with 6 double outlets......
i mean come on......

 

[telectrix]

true, but part p is statutory and it specifies that electrical work must comply with BS7671.

 

[DNS1]

I expected it would be ridiculed, I thought it was stupid as soon as I read it. 12 sockets in a small room is just stupid.

It's just hard to over-look when a few paragraphs earlier, the OSG is showing voltage drop calculations and current carrying stats!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

OK Tel...but the issue i was having here is a common sense one.....you look at a job..then consult with the client as to how many points they will require and what their demands/usage will be etc....isn`t that also what sparkying is all about mate?....

 

[Knobhead]

Think of a number
Double it
Subtract 2
Add 14
Take √3 of the resultant²

And she will still find something she can’t plug in!

Give up! It’s the path of least resistance.

 

[JONOXNAM]

Its all about preventing inconvenience to the end user.

Don't forget the regs etc are an evolving thing based on safety of what is seen in the real world.

Before they specified heights and number of sockets you must have had jobs where the customer wants additional sockets to the single one in each room that is located 1cm from the floor - this scenario evolved to give us min and max heights from the floor to prevent cable stress and a suggested number of sockets to prevent inconvenience to the user.

For your scenario there is also a min height from work surface to prevent cable stress....

 

[cakey]

In reality after you take into consideration the 300mm recommendation distance from sink, the hob, tall standing f/f, window, back door you'd do well to get 1 above the worktop in a small kitchen.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I just seen its for your girlfriend, 6 double would not be enough!!

Like others have said, sit down and ask her what is always plugged in like microwave and kettle, does she use a steamer a hot grill plate as well, then the handheld blender etc GHD's.....
Once you have a good idea of what she wants then add one more double socket for the phone charger and small TV or radio they have forgotten about.

 

[DNS1]

That's a bloody good point!! I'll have to listen to her moan daily if I don't put enough in!

By the way, what is the minimum height above the worktop? I can't seem to find it anywhere, OSG only gives minimum above floor.

 

[ruston]

There is no minimum height above a worktop , just make sure you fit in with the kitchen design an are not to low that you can not get the molded plugs into the sockets. If you know what type of tiles you are fitting it's nice to work in with that , saves you loads of work if you are doing it yourself.

 

[Rockingit]

Common sense prevails in kitchens. Common sense being that:
1) There will always be something else to plug in regardless of how many sockets you install
2) Put them in sensible places, think about what kind of appliance is likely to sit where on a worktop
3) Don't install them too low otherwise you won't get moulded plugtops in
4) Don't put them too close to anything that gets wet or produces heat

My kitchen isn't big, about 2.5 x 2.5 kind of size (until I build the extension, that is!) but I put in 8 doubles and 4 fsu's when I rewired last year, and each of them has got something hanging out of it. On the other hand, I've done a kitchen where I just put in ONE single for a fridge/freezer (plus the cooker outlet) due to specific conditions with the user.

 

[Richard Burns]

By the way, what is the minimum height above the worktop? I can't seem to find it anywhere, OSG only gives minimum above floor.

Recommended to be 150mm above worktop to prevent cable strain when plugging in.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I've done a kitchen where the bloke didn't want any sockets showing AT ALL (and it was massive, maybe 8M x 6M). Just up to them isn't it. None was a bit silly I persuaded him to have a few.

 

[Engineer54]

I've done a kitchen where the bloke didn't want any sockets showing AT ALL (and it was massive, maybe 8M x 6M). Just up to them isn't it. None was a bit silly I persuaded him to have a few.

What's the betting he has regretted that boo boo ever since, unless he eats out every night!! These idiots that think kitchens are there, only to be admired by others, soon find out, that was a One Big mistake!!

You don't install outlets in kitchens for specific bits of portable appliances, you're installing them for there convienience value!! As I think Tony said, ...they will ALL get used at one time or another. There are always new kitchen Gizmo's coming out, so what sockets you have now may well not be enough in the not so distant future...lol!!!

 

[1shortcircuit]

Better to have it and NOT need it, than to NEED it and NOT have it

 

[Rockingit]

what sockets you have now may well not be enough in the not so distant future...lol!!!

Whilst it's impossible to infinitely future proof, and ridiculous to even contemplate, I always discuss plans with my clients in terms of 'life of the property', rather than just what they think they know for the next couple of years. Most of them respect the concept, even if they don't necessarily sign up to the whole nine yards (or want to pay for it).

 

[Engineer54]

Whilst it's impossible to infinitely future proof, and ridiculous to even contemplate, I always discuss plans with my clients in terms of 'life of the property', rather than just what they think they know for the next couple of years. Most of them respect the concept, even if they don't necessarily sign up to the whole nine yards (or want to pay for it).

I'm basically saying, that to install the minimum amount of outlets in a kitchen is a mistake!!
i don't know what you guy's do now, but i remember the old rule of thumb the sparks used to use for kitchen outlets, and that was one double every 2' of liner worktop run. That doesn't include below worktop outlets for fixed appliances etc.

As you say, some customers think they know better, or try and make cost savings, ...and go for the minimum of above worktop outlets, ...but most realise pretty quickly, that was a decision or saving too far!! lol!!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Better to have it and NOT need it, than to NEED it and NOT have it

Love it