9% increase on gas and elec

[sedgy34]

Some new houses have heat recovery systems

 

[Jaycee]

Well in 5 years time they won't be installing mains gas in newbuild houses it's going to be renewables any gas will be LPG

Everyone will be able to install an electric boiler which have been around for years

 

[sedgy34]

Thinking about it I maybe able to feed my oven with bottled gas as I've a pantry behind my kitchen but depending on the price of the bottled gas could be cheaper and install a log burner and underfloor heating got to be a money spinner

 

[MicraShed]

Everyone will be able to install an electric boiler which have been around for years

Do you think electric boilers have a viable future as gas/oil boiler alternatives? I suppose if the unit cost of electricity reduces or if people can generate sufficient themselves via micro generation on site then they might have a viable future.

But personally Im not convinced. In the same way I baulked at the chap who came to price up the PV system who suggested I rip out my gas fire and replace it with a fan heater. Fine up to a point, but when I want heat from the fire is usually at night in winter (ie when the sun isnt shining and Im not producing power from the PV).

Its something I will keep an eye on, as I could be a lot more flexible in the positioning of the boiler not being restricted by gas supply and exhaust positions. Possibly if we embrace renewables and nuclear power more within the UK we might see a wholesale fall in energy prices - after all if every house had even a 2kW system, Im sure the amount exported during the day would enable a marked reduction in the amount of power generated and thus fuel used by the energy generators. Hopefully that might have a knock on effect to domestic prices charged.

 

[sedgy34]

There's always biomass and wood burners

 

[Jaycee]

There's always biomass and wood burners

Well if the government finally put the domestic rhi into place then I can really see biomass taking off, already in place for commercial pr

 

[MicraShed]

There's always biomass and wood burners

I think this has been touched upon already elsewhere in the forum, but Biomass has limitations due to the size of the boilers and hoppers/stores and also in the production of fuel should everyone in the UK suddenly switch to biomass heating.
Log burners are another alternative, but most people would want something fairly minimal maintainece and able to give them heat at the flick of a switch (rather than getting up early to light the fire and wait for it to heat the water for a shower), which is where we go back to Biomass and wood pellets fed from a hopper... And then we have issues with most 1970's onwards built houses having limited space for the size of install needed.

Thats where something like an electric boiler could really come in to its own. But only if the cost per unit to generate the heat and hot water needed for a house was comparable with natural gas.

I dont think there is a single answer that would fit all properties.

Well thats my thoughts anyway.

 

[SRE]

Thinking about it I maybe able to feed my oven with bottled gas as I've a pantry behind my kitchen but depending on the price of the bottled gas could be cheaper

Did I miss something? Why would you pay 7.6p/kwh for lpg when you get natural gas for 4.2p/kwh?

 

[sedgy34]

Yes the bit you missed was "depending on the price"

 

[Worcester]

Best Solution? Here's my tuppence:
Solar PV, Solar Thermal, Wood Burner, big thermal store, might even need a thermal dump - we've had to do that for one customer !! possibly backed up with either a gas or calor gas fired boiler or ashp...
Could also consider Thermodynamic solar panels.

There are now ashp's and solar thermal systems with high enough output (65 degree) even in winter to retrofit existing heating systems without having to replace all the radiators...

 

[sambotc]

Hang on a minute though, we are talking (unless i am mistaken, if so i apologise in advance) about removing a mains gas boiler/system and replacing with biomass?

The cost of a biomass system will never, ever, ever repay with out RHI (which you would not be entitled too if you have a mains gas supply).

There are some serious issues/debate taking place at the moment about the air quality affects of biomass, particularly in built up areas.

I am all for biomass taking a percentage of the oil/lpg market which is why I have trained to be able to offer it amongst other technologies, but we are never going to be in a position where it is a viable alternative for replacing a mains gas boiler. As I said before, at present nothing available is, which is why I can see the logic in not making RHI payments available to properties with a minas gas supply (with the exception of solar thermal)

 

[Jaycee]

Some new houses have heat recovery systems

One of my electrical contractor customers installs a heat recovery system on every new build property, it's a struggle to keep up with him!

 

[Jaycee]

Hang on a minute though, we are talking (unless i am mistaken, if so i apologise in advance) about removing a mains gas boiler/system and replacing with biomass?

The cost of a biomass system will never, ever, ever repay with RHI (which you would not be entitled too if you have a mains gas supply).

There are some serious issues/debate taking place at the moment about the air quality affects of biomass, particularly in built up areas.

I am all for biomass taking a percentage of the oil/lpg market which is why I have trained to be able to offer it amongst other technologies, but we are never going to be in a position where it is a viable alternative for replacing a mains gas boiler. As I said before, at present nothing available is, which is why I can see the logic in not making RHI payments available to properties with a minas gas supply (with the exception of solar thermal)

My I ask you to google biomass payback calculator, and compare it against oil or lpg, when I have run through the figures, it is 50 per cent cheaper to run.

If you need a competitive price list for biomass systems (from 15kw upwards) then drop me a message with your email address.

Jason

 

[sambotc]

Mains gas, we are talking about mains gas are we not!? I believe the conversation was started as microshed was enquiring about ripping out his mains gas heating boiler to replace with an electric boiler so that the P.V would contribute?

according to a quick google as it is to late to do the sums myself after the day i've had.

natural gas (mains) 4.2p/kwh

heating oil 6.0p/kwh

bulk lpg 7.6p/kwh

electricity 14.5p/kwh

wood pellets 4.2p/kwh

wood chip 2.9p/kwh


We can discount wood chip for domestic, so wood pellet is marginally cheaper than mains gas. However the installation costs are far, far higher than mains gas. The maintenance costs are also much higher, both annual and potential breakdown costs.

Oil and LPG, I agree as per my above post, although it is fairly obvious to see by the current market position that domestic biomass requires the incentives of the RHI in order for it to take off in a volume, especially if an existing appliance is already present at the property.

I can't see you getting much change out of £8k for a simple hand loaded biomass set up for a reputable but not top end MCS approved smoke zone exempt appliance, chimney system and controls, plus certification etc more for automated feed/hooper. Replacing an existing oil boiler with a new condensing type probably £2k so the RHI is a must until the technology is better acknowledged by the consumer (even though its been used for years on the continent)

I am also slightly sceptical about the potential price increase in wood pellets in a few years. Personally if I had the space and spare time I would look at a log gasification boiler and accumulator.

 

[sambotc]

Jaycee your inbox is full

 

[Jaycee]

Jaycee your inbox is full

Now sorted, thanks :wink5:

 

[Hundleton1]

Funny since prices have been going up iv been thinking about the possibility of building a generator that runs on natural gas from a small car engine, which would be water-cooled that would then dump heat into a cylinder or heating system, also be air cooled with heat exchangers taking even more waste heat into the home, the unit could be load regulated and produce as required, realistically a 6kwh generator could run the whole house as long as consideration is taken to multiple high wattage being used.

the problem i have come across is i have no idea the consumption of an engine is on gas, may or may not be a feasible idea.

 

[FB.]

according to a quick google as it is to late to do the sums myself after the day i've had.

natural gas (mains) 4.2p/kwh

heating oil 6.0p/kwh

bulk lpg 7.6p/kwh

electricity 14.5p/kwh

wood pellets 4.2p/kwh

wood chip 2.9p/kwh

Regarding gas v electric: I think that once the gas has been burned to produce heat, and after the heat losses through the exhaust and from pipework, that rather than electriciy being about 2.5x the cost of gas, it is closer to 1.7x the cost.
So if solar PV can provide about half of the power needs, it effectively becomes slightly cheaper than gas.

 

[sedgy34]

I've just had my 2nd fit payment of £453 so this is going towards my wood burner I'm having lol

 

[robertevans68]

You need an Immersun

Where can I buy an immersun cheap?

£359 inc vat cheapest I can find

Thanks Rob