Advice: flat below me is being rewired by unqualified electrician.

[Mr. Harry]

Hello,

Some advice please as I think that the flat below mine is being rewired by someone who isn’t qualified.

The small basement flat below mine sold a few months ago. I know the property was in a bad state and the wiring and electrics go back to the 1970s.

The new owner is attempting to turn it around within a month and sell it.

A local electrician turned up earlier this week and needed to see the electricity meter which is in a different place in the building which the new owner didn’t know where it was located - he knocked on my door and I showed them where it was. The electrician said that the cable from the meter was not up to current regulations. They went back to the flat that needed the work doing. Some time later I saw the electrician outside in the street going to his van. I asked him if there was a lot of work to do there. He said it was a ‘nightmare’ and didn’t want the job. Said what the client wanted was do-able. Said that because of the concrete floor that all the present wiring runs in the ceiling and that would all have to come out to do the job. The client didn’t want that as he had already put in new flooring and decorated.

Two days later the owner of the flat is there with another man, he tells me this is the electrician who is doing the work. I just get a feeling that this new electrician is quite right. I ask him if he is qualified - yes ‘qualified but retired’. He isn’t in work clothes and has no vehicle or tools that I can see.

So he is working there all this week, I can see a new consumer board and I can see the builder has chased out the cabling in the kitchen area.

I saw the owner yesterday and asked him if everything will be certified - at this he got a bit annoyed and said - ‘I don’t know why you worry, I know what I’m doing’. But didn’t answer my question.

So I’m looking for advice on what to do next.

Do I contact Building Control? Would they take this seriously and check up?

Can I ask to see any certification?

Thanks in advance.

H

 

[littlespark]

I’m afraid what happens in a private residence is nothing you can get involved in. Only if they have to access your property, you could demand to see quals.

falling out with your new neighbour also isn’t a good idea.

a good, retired spark could be 10 times better than a noob on the block.

 

[telectrix]

what he says^^^^^. none of yor business.

 

[Julie.]

I feel your pain though, an acquaintance of mine put a post up on Facebook very proud that he replaced his cu with a new modern one.

Unfortunately he took each meter tail through seperate entries into the metal cu, had 32A mcbs on what looked like 1.5mm^2 cables, and a whole host of other obvious issues.

But, what do you do?

Even a friendly pm pointing out that it would need redoing properly, no matter how worded wouldn't go down well!

Sometimes you have to stand aside Unfortunately.

I do sympathise with the situation, a poor installation causing a fire could transfer between flats.

 

[Dartlec]

Hello,

Some advice please as I think that the flat below mine is being rewired by someone who isn’t qualified.

The small basement flat below mine sold a few months ago. I know the property was in a bad state and the wiring and electrics go back to the 1970s.

The new owner is attempting to turn it around within a month and sell it.

A local electrician turned up earlier this week and needed to see the electricity meter which is in a different place in the building which the new owner didn’t know where it was located - he knocked on my door and I showed them where it was. The electrician said that the cable from the meter was not up to current regulations. They went back to the flat that needed the work doing. Some time later I saw the electrician outside in the street going to his van. I asked him if there was a lot of work to do there. He said it was a ‘nightmare’ and didn’t want the job. Said what the client wanted was do-able. Said that because of the concrete floor that all the present wiring runs in the ceiling and that would all have to come out to do the job. The client didn’t want that as he had already put in new flooring and decorated.

Two days later the owner of the flat is there with another man, he tells me this is the electrician who is doing the work. I just get a feeling that this new electrician is quite right. I ask him if he is qualified - yes ‘qualified but retired’. He isn’t in work clothes and has no vehicle or tools that I can see.

So he is working there all this week, I can see a new consumer board and I can see the builder has chased out the cabling in the kitchen area.

I saw the owner yesterday and asked him if everything will be certified - at this he got a bit annoyed and said - ‘I don’t know why you worry, I know what I’m doing’. But didn’t answer my question.

So I’m looking for advice on what to do next.

Do I contact Building Control? Would they take this seriously and check up?

Can I ask to see any certification?

Thanks in advance.

H

The only thing that Building Control will probably care about is that the consumer unit change (and possibly some of the other work) is notified to them on completion of the work, which has to be done by a registered person under one of the schemes. They won't have any other input to electrical work, nor would they likely have the experience to comment on electrical matters anyway.

The Part P notication to the council has to be done within 20 days of completion of the work, and on some councils websites it is visible against the property on their planning portal. During the sale of a property it will likely cause problems if it's not done, but that is the sellers and buyers responsibility to check and I don't see that you have any authority to question it.

The rest of it is purely down to competency, and that can't be judged by the quality of the van or what the person looks like. There are plenty of bad workmen around with flashy vans, and good workmen with a small battered car.

Obviously none of us can tell the quality of the installation, but wiring from the 70s is often still perfectly servicable so it's not perhaps as big a red flag as you think. If a new consumer unit is going in it will likely have RCD protection on everything, and will in all likelihood be safer in all respects than what was there.

Obviously if work starts to impact on your property (such as drilling through your floor), then things may be different, but that's a general issue nothing to do with electrical qualifications.

If you have concerns, you may get better results by being nice to the new guy, maybe even offer him a tea if the power is off downstairs.

If/when the new property is sold then you can obviously have a discussion with the new purchasers to confirm they have had a certificate, etc, if you wish, but you have no rights that I'm aware of to demand it.

 

[snowhead]

Untill the work has been completed and sufficient time has passed for the new consumer unit to have been notified then ther's nothing that can be done.

If the plan is to sell the flat then the work would need to have been notified or the sale may not go through.

 

[Mr. Harry]

I’m afraid what happens in a private residence is nothing you can get involved in. Only if they have to access your property, you could demand to see quals.

falling out with your new neighbour also isn’t a good idea.

a good, retired spark could be 10 times better than a noob on the block.

So if an unsafe and illegal job is being done below me it is none of my business? A 10 year retired spark may well do a good job but if it is not signed off then who knows if it is a ‘good job’ and not a bad (dangerous) one?

 

[Zerax]

So if an unsafe and illegal job is being done below me it is none of my business? A 10 year retired spark may well do a good job but if it is not signed off then who knows if it is a ‘good job’ and not a bad (dangerous) one?

This sounds like a classic case of OCS... just because something is 'signed off' does not mean that it's a high quality job... it just means that it has some paperwork attached to it. Some of the best work I've seen has been by retired sparks who are not 'signing off' anything. And vice versa... some of the worst work I've seen has been fully certificated.

In any case, whether a job is unsafe or not is a matter of opinion... so unless your opinion is more qualified than someone else's, with respect, I'm not sure it counts for much.

 

[Vortigern]

The best thing to do is discuss the matter with your Building Control for your district/area.
Do you have a certificate for your own flat as a matter of interest?
[automerge]1601842454[/automerge]

Said what the client wanted was(n't?) do-able.

I just get a feeling that this new electrician is(n't) quite right.

Is that what you meant to say?

 

[Mr. Harry]

The best thing to do is discuss the matter with your Building Control for your district/area.
Do you have a certificate for your own flat as a matter of interest?
[automerge]1601842454[/automerge]


Is that what you meant to say?

Yes - that’s what I meant.
[automerge]1601886639[/automerge]

The best thing to do is discuss the matter with your Building Control for your district/area.
Do you have a certificate for your own flat as a matter of interest?
[automerge]1601842454[/automerge]


Is that what you meant to say?

I had my own flat completely rewired - everything re done. I have the NICEIC paperwork for everything signed off.
[automerge]1601886904[/automerge]

This sounds like a classic case of OCS... just because something is 'signed off' does not mean that it's a high quality job... it just means that it has some paperwork attached to it. Some of the best work I've seen has been by retired sparks who are not 'signing off' anything. And vice versa... some of the worst work I've seen has been fully certificated.

In any case, whether a job is unsafe or not is a matter of opinion... so unless your opinion is more qualified than someone else's, with respect, I'm not sure it counts for much.

Well I would think that the opinion of Building Control is the one that counts. Is ‘unsafe’ a matter of opinion? Surely if something isn’t done correctly - not earthed say - then that is a fact - not opinion?

 

[Julie.]

Yes - that’s what I meant.
[automerge]1601886639[/automerge]

I had my own flat completely rewired - everything re done. I have the NICEIC paperwork for everything signed off.
[automerge]1601886904[/automerge]

Well I would think that the opinion of Building Control is the one that counts. Is ‘unsafe’ a matter of opinion? Surely if something isn’t done correctly - not earthed say - then that is a fact - not opinion?

And has it not been done correctly?

How do you know it isn't right?

Let's put it in other terms, i have seen your car, and the way you are dressed, so I think you wouldn't follow the rules of the road correctly.

How do I go reporting you?

No facts, no information, just suspicion that things aren't going to be done properly!

 

[Mr. Harry]

what he says^^^^^. none of yor business.

It is someone’s business if work is not be done correctly.
Freeholder of the building contacted:

No permission to alter asked for.
Freeholder has right to enter and check work.
Freeholder requires electrical condition report.
Uncertified work could negate building’s insurance.
Building Control being contacted by Freeholder.

 

[littlespark]

It is someone’s business if work is not be done correctly.
Freeholder of the building contacted:

No permission to alter asked for.
Freeholder has right to enter and check work.
Freeholder requires electrical condition report.
Uncertified work could negate building’s insurance.
Building Control being contacted by Freeholder.

So are you the freeholder?

If not, then all you can do is report the works to the freeholder and let them deal with it

 

[Zerax]

It is someone’s business if work is not be done correctly.
Freeholder of the building contacted:

No permission to alter asked for.
Freeholder has right to enter and check work.
Freeholder requires electrical condition report.
Uncertified work could negate building’s insurance.
Building Control being contacted by Freeholder.

I stand to be corrected... but... this all sounds like a matter of the leaseholder needs to read his lease agreement rather than a matter of the quality of any electrical works.

 

[snowhead]

It is someone’s business if work is not be done correctly.
At this moment in time there is no evidence to prove it is being or won't be done correctly.

Freeholder of the building contacted:
No permission to alter asked for.
It may not be work that requires notification to the Freeholder.

Freeholder has right to enter and check work.
Only by appointment at the convenience of the Leaseholder

Freeholder requires electrical condition report.
So will the prospective buyer, but untill the work is done there is no certificate of any type

Uncertified work could negate building’s insurance. See above

Building Control being contacted by Freeholder.
Who will need some firm evidence before they get involved

 

[telectrix]

It is someone’s business if work is not be done correctly.
Freeholder of the building contacted:

No permission to alter asked for.
Freeholder has right to enter and check work.
Freeholder requires electrical condition report.
Uncertified work could negate building’s insurance.
Building Control being contacted by Freeholder.

so.. you've informed freholder. it's off your bsck now. let him deal with it whatever the outcome.

 

[Midwest]

I dunno, I’d be concerned if I thought someone was doing something dodgy in a flat below.

Generally, your first instincts are the right ones, when you think something is not right. There are some people who have conspiracy theories off the scale, but most people know when something is not what it should be IMO.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

This sounds like a classic case of OCS

@Zerax, pardon my ignorance, but what's OCS? I did ask google, but didn't give me anything useful.

 

[snowhead]

Think he meant O.C.D

 

[Zerax]

@Zerax, pardon my ignorance, but what's OCS? I did ask google, but didn't give me anything useful.

Official Certificate Syndrome

It's a modern world ailment whereby people mistakenly believe that having a certificate actually proves something.

 

[Mr. Harry]

Official Certificate Syndrome

It's a modern world ailment whereby people mistakenly believe that having a certificate actually proves something.

It proves something to the buildings insurance company.
Why did the block burn down?
Why didn’t you think to get the work certified?
If you had done it correctly then your cover would still be valid.

 

[Rockingit]

I've a degree of sympathy with the OP on this one. Whilst yes, it does smack of curtain-twitching interference, since Grenfell etc people are far more tuned into their own safety only being limited to part of a bigger community system - so the OP is right to consider that should a worse case happen he doesn't end up being the next shrimp on the BBQ.

 

[pc1966]

Given the serious nature of what might happen it would make sense for the OP to politely contact the leaseholder and building control to outline the key concern - that work is being undertaken which requires certification, but that the OP has reason to suspect may not be done correctly based on the first electrician's comments.

Now until the work has been done there is nothing but suspicion, so all it is doing is prompting them to check more carefully that the work really has been done correctly when the time comes.

 

[Zerax]

It proves something to the buildings insurance company.
Why did the block burn down?
Why didn’t you think to get the work certified?
If you had done it correctly then your cover would still be valid.

Having a certificate proves nothing to an insurance company... they just require a certificate.

A similar analogy is that of having an MOT certificate for your car. Even though it's a test of roadworthiness... the minute you drive out of the garage, you could be prosecuted for having an unroadworthy vehicle ! The law requires that your vehicle is roadworthy and that it has a current MOT certificate. They are two separate things. Having just had an MOT may help you prove that the vehicle is roadworthy, but in itself, it proves nothing !

It is for this reason, that the only people I use to do work for me, are people that I trust to do the job... regardless of what certificate they might want to issue me.

I recall many years ago having some gas work done... and I knew more about the gas regs than the fully Corgi registered plumber !

 

[Baddegg]

Having a certificate proves nothing to an insurance company... they just require a certificate.

A similar analogy is that of having an MOT certificate for your car. Even though it's a test of roadworthiness... the minute you drive out of the garage, you could be prosecuted for having an unroadworthy vehicle ! The law requires that your vehicle is roadworthy and that it has a current MOT certificate. They are two separate things. Having just had an MOT may help you prove that the vehicle is roadworthy, but in itself, it proves nothing !

It is for this reason, that the only people I use to do work for me, are people that I trust to do the job... regardless of what certificate they might want to issue me.

I recall many years ago having some gas work done... and I knew more about the gas regs than the fully Corgi registered plumber !

My postman knows more about wetpants regs than wetpants. ?