Ceiling is not 'fire rated' so do downlights need to be??

[Eddiesparks]

Hi guys,

I'm doing a load of EICRs for the firm I am working for. They look after lots of different properties and they are all due EICRs.

Many are installs from 10-15 years ago and feature non fire rated downlights in flats with habitable space upstairs. The ceiling is single skin regular (not red!) plasterboard. By my reckoning this isnt a 'fire rated' ceiling am i correct??!

If this is the case do i really need to put a C2 fault code for this? What do you all think??

There are about 70 properties and the ramifications are pretty spectacular if they all fail on this point!!

 

[snowhead]

All plastered ceilings have a fire rating, some longer than others.

I don't remember downlights being available fire rated 15 years ago.

 

[Eddiesparks]

Just adding to this, surely because it was compliant with an 'old version of the regs' it is a C3. Because fire rated fittings only really came about with Part P etc??

Thoughts?

 

[Eddiesparks]

All plastered ceilings have a fire rating, some longer than others.

I don't remember downlights being available fire rated 15 years ago.

So are you saying that this would be a C3?

 

[Badged01]

If this is the case do i really need to put a C2 fault code for this? What do you all think??

The ESC do a guide on the impact of accessories on fire performance, including downlighters in ceilings. Worth a little read as I think this will give you a starter for 10 .......

Best practice guides : Electrical Safety Council

 

[Eddiesparks]

I understand why fire rated fittings are important etc but i was wondering what others put on an eicr seeing as it seems that esc eicr codes guide pg 14 says it is C2 but, as its something that adhered to old version of regs my gut says C3...

 

[Badged01]

I understand why fire rated fittings are important etc but i was wondering what others put on an eicr seeing as it seems that esc eicr codes guide pg 14 says it is C2 but, as its something that adhered to old version of regs my gut says C3...

When you do an EICR you are doing it against the current BS7671, not any previous versions. If the ESC guide gives a C2 (bearing in mind they are endorsed by the IET who do BS7671) you would in my opinion be a brave man to go against them.

What was considered safe in the past may not necessarily be considered safe now. Ultimately you as the inspector decide if its safe or not and code it accordingly. You want to give it a C3 give it a C3. The only time you will have to justify your grade is if something goes wrong and the judge wants to hear your explanation for the grade .....

 

[mhar]

Had this the other day and posted in the inspection and testing section.
If you are able to verify that the lights are not going to resist the passage of fire then a C2. In my case I was unable to verify whether the lights were fire rated (no markings at all on the fittings) so I used C3 plus further investigation required coupled with an explanation why in the comments and recommendations. Biff55 liked this answer I was given which was a good enough recommendation for me.

 

[AndyL]

I understand why fire rated fittings are important etc but i was wondering what others put on an eicr seeing as it seems that esc eicr codes guide pg 14 says it is C2 but, as its something that adhered to old version of regs my gut says C3...

I think this relates to the light itself as a fire risk i.e. fitted too close to joists etc, rather than the risk of fire spreading. I would say no code required

 

[Des 56]

The IET commisioned a fire test on downlights and there is a copy on that site somewhere

The jist of the results was that recesed non fire rated lights did not contribute to the spread of fire through the ceiling

With regard to your question, a ceiling joist is not a fire compartment, so how it is breaching a compartment that does not exist is a trick one to justify

Having said the above,I consider them,both open and fire rated, as no more than Bunsen Burners in the ceiling,horrid contraptions that have become so numerous
Ban the wholesale use of them would be my own recomendation

 

[Guitarist]

The IET commisioned a fire test on downlights and there is a copy on that site somewhere

The jist of the results was that recesed non fire rated lights did not contribute to the spread of fire through the ceiling

With regard to your question, a ceiling joist is not a fire compartment, so how it is breaching a compartment that does not exist is a trick one to justify

Having said the above,I consider them,both open and fire rated, as no more than Bunsen Burners in the ceiling,horrid contraptions that have become so numerous
Ban the wholesale use of them would be my own recomendation

Have to agree. DL's, along with burying every RFC in 10 inches of loft insulation will be the next big thing on watchdog soon. LED units, or none at all imo.

 

[jjnr78]

As a few others are alluding to, I'd also look at the way these light fittings are installed to build a picture. What's the fire/ smoke detection system like? If you combine a number of elements it would probably tilt you towards a code 2.