Commercial Property Rewire Query

[mackatoon]

Hi Guys

Just thought id ask the question as I've been asked to rewire a commercial property, and I don't do much commercial as it always has to be done tomorrow. Anyway its a basic setup Ring Main sockets and LED Panel lights.

However when I've gone to the board I can see its an old board with no RCD protection at all. There on a budget and don't want to change the board and mentioned RCBOs. I checked and the board is discontinued and RCBOs are rare and second hand if sourced so i don't want to go that route. Anyway I've said i don't want to touch it unless there prepared to change the board.

Hes come back to me regarding using RCD protected sockets plates. Not had much use of those but what are your thoughts on the subject?

Cheers

Andy

 

[stevethesparks]

Rcd socket plates if in much quantity, could end up more expensive than a new board, as well as not meeting certain requirements. With commercial, you need to get in your head that the price range if going to be a lot more than a domestic setting. Quote on the basis of what you really think ought to be done, and if you cant persuade the customer, that's what needs doing at that price, then walk.

 

[mackatoon]

Rcd socket plates if in much quantity, could end up more expensive than a new board, as well as not meeting certain requirements. With commercial, you need to get in your head that the price range if going to be a lot more than a domestic setting. Quote on the basis of what you really think ought to be done, and if you cant persuade the customer, that's what needs doing at that price, then walk.

Cheers mate. Exactly as I thought as even if the sockets were fully RCD protected the lighting wouldn't be. Not worth the risk in my eyes.

Thanks for the reply.

Andy

 

[timhoward]

even if the sockets were fully RCD protected the lighting wouldn't be

I think 411.3.4 only applies to domestic premises?

 

[timhoward]

I might install one RCD socket in a particular set of circumstances, I wouldn't replace multiple sockets on a circuit with them for cost and compliance reasons. As above if they can afford RCD sockets they can afford a board change or an RCD enclosure. I might be tempted to price up RCD sockets to help them see its a false economy (with no intent of actually doing it)

 

[Vortigern]

£400 - £800 is the price range just for the board. Changing it can easily take a whole day and more so that is £300 to £800. If, as it is inevitable you need to chase down faults then it can easily run into a few days plus remedies which can be from £900 - £2000 with remedies being realistic. So anything from £700 to £3600. An EICR would be a good place to start so there are no nasty surprises. As you indicate the installation is old even more so an EICR is needed and identifying circuits would no doubt be part of that. Are there any previous certs?

 

[timhoward]

"its a basic setup Ring Main sockets and LED Panel lights" - is that total installation size?
It could be a commercial that's in fact a smaller installation than most houses.

 

[mackatoon]

"its a basic setup Ring Main sockets and LED Panel lights" - is that total installation size?
It could be a commercial that's in fact a smaller installation than most houses.

Yeah its not massive. About 10 sockets and 10 panels.

 

[Ned Gibbons]

Cheers mate. Exactly as I thought as even if the sockets were fully RCD protected the lighting wouldn't be. Not worth the risk in my eyes.

Thanks for the reply.

Andy

Also no protection for the cabling, so no good if someone bangs a nail into the wall and hits a cable.

 

[pc1966]

You could put a separate RCD in a DIN enclosure for the sockets. For commercial then I don't think the RCD is demanded for lights, though the old "buried cable" risk is not gone completely.

Really a new board is a much better bet as they will find spares hard to get / expensive in the future. Also they might need to check their insurance as often a clean EICR is mentioned, and a new board and related fixing of faults would be the best rout to that.

 

[mackatoon]

I told them unless I could change the board I wasn't interested in the job. I wouldn't of felt happy with my work otherwise.

Cheers for all of the replies guys, much appreciated.

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

If there really is only 10 sockets and 10 LED panels, it would probably work out cheaper pulling in new cables and fitting a new DB. That way you won't have to worry about any faults etc. and wont need to carry out an EICR.

Plus you said they've asked for a rewire so I'm assuming that's what they want anyways.

Youll be able to get a fuse board to cater for that installation for £150ish plus all other parts you're maybes looking at £500. Add on your 3 days labour plus markup on parts, fuel allowance etc. and you're nowhere near the £3600 you mentioned.

Unless I'm missing something...

 

[timhoward]

Youll be able to get a fuse board to cater for that installation for £150ish plus all other parts you're maybes looking at £500. Add on your 3 days labour plus markup on parts, fuel allowance etc. and you're nowhere near the £3600 you mentioned.

Unless I'm missing something...

Was thinking same. It this is truly the extent of the installation then the RCD sockets would exceed the cost of doing it right!

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

Was thinking same. It this is truly the extent of the installation then the RCD sockets would exceed the cost of doing it right!

I never install RCD sockets - what sort of price are they?

I'm guessing they only protect whatever's plugged in as well and cant protect the cables feeding the socket which in my experience is more often than not the reason we install RCD protection (50mm wall depth and all that)?

 

[timhoward]

I never install RCD sockets - what sort of price are they?

I'm guessing they only protect whatever's plugged in as well and cant protect the cables feeding the socket which in my experience is more often than not the reason we install RCD protection (50mm wall depth and all that)?

The worst of them can be had for about £15. More for decent brands.
Yes, just local downstream protection. There are compliance issues with them so rare to use them now.