Design 2396 Project - 2016

[Jake1992]

Hi people,

How did everyone find the test the other day ?
Any one started the project?

 

[JRspark]

Hello, I did the 2396 exam the other week. I thought it was intense. Felt I did the best that I could of done. There was a few questions I know I've got wrong and a couple big ones that I struggled to get the information for. But then again there was a lot of smaller mark questions which I thought I did ok on. So can't really say how well I feel I've done. Just praying for a pass.
How did you find it ?

 

[Jake1992]

Think it went ok. Couple of big questions I struggled with too.
Won't find out till 6-8 weeks !
You started the library yet ?

 

[JRspark]

Yeah it's a pretty long wait isn't it. I literally started this afternoon done task A. Have you started it ? [email protected] is my email if you wanna discuss anything regarding the project.

 

[Jake1992]

Sorry mate, I have only just seen that you have replied to this. Ill keep hold of your email... haha... I still havn't started yet !! trying to balance work and personal life.... and to try and squeeze this in ! but I have booked off the end of may (12 days of work) ! - im aiming to get atleast 8 hours a day - for 12 days....and see how far that gets me! ... Along side a nice bottle of rum I think ! - how are you getting on?? in my head im semi planning it out... think im going to do separate drawings for power, lighting, power containment & lighting containment - just so it looks neater and easier to understand ! - maybe start drawing the cable runs soon, then leave the hard stuff for my days off !

 

[Jake1992]

I did this and it does look better, I would recommend doing the cable routes first so its easier to plan where to put your wiring enclosures. I did all my cable routes on A1 plans for the scale and the wiring enclosures on A3. Let me know if I can help with anything.

Neil

Ah - I have printed a lot of A4 duplicates - do you think this would be too small? - Also - I want to use the figures and values from BS:7671 for my cable ratings and breaker D/Times - but in the project, I need to show what brand/make of breakers and cables I am using. Would you state at the start of the project that I am using 7671 instead of the brands D/Times and cable ratings etc ? - For example, if I use Wylex breakers... I know I can gather info about the MCB that would differ from 7671... but id rather just stick to the book (Even if the 7671 is OTT with its figures and values)

 

[Jake1992]

Yeah I think so, but maybe your tutor may say different, the wiring enclosure should not need to be scale so A4 would be ok but the cable routes should be, to work out your cable calcs, Zs etc.

I used BS7671 tables, but again your tutor/assessor may say different.

Tutor said its up to us, he said that we could get better and more accurate results/values if we use the manufactures information about the cable/breaker .. but he said we could also use the book.. The 2016 project is only a small library - I think if it was slightly bigger, with a fair few sub boards - I would use information from the cable manufacture etc - but I think im going to settle for 7671 - He also said A4 is fine, A1 drawing is only to scale our runs etc.. but I wasn't sure if it would look 'ok' on A4 - or if I had to up it to A3

 

[Jake1992]

I have just got to "get into it" then haha - yeah I agree - this project doesn't seem that hard compared to others out there! - Don't have to do any EM lights or PV with this project (Unlike the petrol station the project before this one). No sub boards, just the 1. So I guess im kind of happy that I have been given an easy one - but disappointed that its not going to 'test' me... as such. If that makes sense haha

 

[Jake1992]

Yeah totally understand mate, I completed the 236 C Course in 2004 and the course lasted the best part of a year, it had a load of design projects and was tough. I didn't really need the level 4 2396 but I thought I would do it to see if there is anything I can learn and get a better understanding of how the course should be run for my job. Needless to say I learnt maybe one thing probably due to the course being taught poorly and was disappointed in the end.

The training centre I went too - I learnt a lot from. Really good training centre. They showed us previous projects etc (before we got given the library) - and they looked tough and fun, and required a lot of work. How are you getting on with library now? Much progress?

 

[Jake1992]

How many hours has it taken? - as I cant imagine it taking as many hours as the other projects. I have booked 12 days off- just hoping its enough time if I spend 8 hours a day (for 12 days)

 

[JRspark]

Jake, you mention about only using the one distribution board which is on the drawing, I'm struggling to get within the volt drop limits for the longer circuits without having ridiculous cable sizes, the only way I can see past it is by adding a distribution board toward the middle of the library, unless I'm doing something totally wrong :-s Let me know how you get on.
Jordan.

 

[JRspark]

I used three, the main DB to supply two 3 phase distribution circuits to two DBs, which I put in the store room for easy access to authorised staff in the even of power needed to be isolated or switched on.

That's what I'm looking at doing, two sub DB'S one for downstairs one for upstairs. Except I was going to mount the boards more towards the center of the library, on one of the steels.

What size cables have you ended up with for your power circuits if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Jake1992]

I didn't know we could add DB's ! - I thought we could only go by what is on the drawing

 

[JRspark]

I didn't know we could add DB's ! - I thought we could only go by what is on the drawing

I emailed our tutor the other day to confirm that we can add more boards and he said yes, as long as we meet the requirements listed in parts A,B and C. He said we have a free hand to decide the design of the installation.

 

[Jake1992]

I emailed our tutor the other day to confirm that we can add more boards and he said yes, as long as we meet the requirements listed in parts A,B and C. He said we have a free hand to decide the design of the installation.

That's handy to know then. Not sure if you have read the previous comments in the thread...but I have not yet started. I have 12 days at the end of May booked off work, to hit it hard as beginning of June, my tutor wants my first draft... the feedback I get from him, I can list on here. How are you finding the project so far??

 

[JRspark]

That's handy to know then. Not sure if you have read the previous comments in the thread...but I have not yet started. I have 12 days at the end of May booked off work, to hit it hard as beginning of June, my tutor wants my first draft... the feedback I get from him, I can list on here. How are you finding the project so far??

Yeah with 12 days off you should be able to have a good go at it. When I first started it I was struggling on it but now I've added another DB things seem to be going alright with regards to grouping and volt drop. I work away all week so struggling to find the time!

 

[Jake1992]

Yeah with 12 days off you should be able to have a good go at it. When I first started it I was struggling on it but now I've added another DB things seem to be going alright with regards to grouping and volt drop. I work away all week so struggling to find the time!

Not all circuits have to be added to the grouping factor though (if they supply something under a certain amount of amps - don't ask me what, I havnt got my books on me haha) what circuits are struggling with voltdrops?? the lighting? as in my head I was going to install a klick system and increase the csa. Also, looking at the drawings, I wasn't going to have any rings, just stick to radials. Obviously im saying all these ideas, but not actually started the project and calculations, so my ideas might get flushed haha!

 

[JRspark]

Not all circuits have to be added to the grouping factor though (if they supply something under a certain amount of amps - don't ask me what, I havnt got my books on me haha) what circuits are struggling with voltdrops?? the lighting? as in my head I was going to install a klick system and increase the csa. Also, looking at the drawings, I wasn't going to have any rings, just stick to radials. Obviously im saying all these ideas, but not actually started the project and calculations, so my ideas might get flushed haha!

Yes your right if the cable is not expected to carry more than 30% of its grouped rated current it can be discounted from further grouping. Well so far I have only done the socket outlet circuits and desks, the length of run including all the drops eetc was pretty big if I took them from the original DB. Yeah I'm sticking to radials mate to keep it as simple as I can, I'm only a few hours into the project my self, got a full day on it Friday hopefully see some progress.

 

[Jake1992]

Yes your right if the cable is not expected to carry more than 30% of its grouped rated current it can be discounted from further grouping. Well so far I have only done the socket outlet circuits and desks, the length of run including all the drops eetc was pretty big if I took them from the original DB. Yeah I'm sticking to radials mate to keep it as simple as I can, I'm only a few hours into the project my self, got a full day on it Friday hopefully see some progress.

Drops? You running the cables in the ceiling void? not underground? - Where did you put your sub board? as if I was to put one in, im thinking on the pillar near reception desk

 

[GEOFF S]

Yes your right if the cable is not expected to carry more than 30% of its grouped rated current it can be discounted from further grouping. Well so far I have only done the socket outlet circuits and desks, the length of run including all the drops eetc was pretty big if I took them from the original DB. Yeah I'm sticking to radials mate to keep it as simple as I can, I'm only a few hours into the project my self, got a full day on it Friday hopefully see some progress.

Hi

Ring circuits have better volt drop capacity, just state an evenly distributed load and add a 0.25 factor to your volt drop equation, again for lighting if the load is pretty much evenly distributed, assuming a radial circuit use a factor of 0.5 in your volt drop equation.

Cheers

 

[Jake1992]

Just had my result back - Distinction ! - now just to wait till end of May for my time booked off - to start the project.

 

[Simonslimline]

Just had my result back - Distinction ! - now just to wait till end of May for my time booked off - to start the project.

Nice work. Bet thats a relief.

 

[JRspark]

Distinction for me too

 

[Jake1992]

Congratz people ! @Simons - big weight off my shoulders- I thought I scraped a pass. Cant wait to get stuck into the project now.. cant believe I haven't even started it yet

 

[Jake1992]

Started the project the other day, and got a few questions about random stuff that people might be able to help me on. Can we fix onto steel cladding (ceiling) ? some of my lights are high bay fittings (fittings I have found weigh 4kg)...and majority of the fittings do not line up with girders (as I was going to use the girder to hang from). The reason I ask if we can fix and hang from steel cladding is because when I had a look online, it seems pretty thin...has anyone had experience fixing and hanging lights from steel cladding? (exterior has a pvc membrane on the steel cladding- so drilling it wont make a hole for water to drip into) - another question that I asked my tutor but he hasn't replied yet is, when im adding grouping factors to containment - do I take the worse case and use that figure in my calcs ? (example - I have a run that passes through 3 different containment runs. one of the containment runs has 2 circuits in it, another containment has 3 circuits in it and the main containment "spine run" as such- has 6 circuits in it ... when working out my calcs, do I apply the Cg with the worse case containment?) I havnt come to working out calcs yet, im just making my routes...so I am aware that the 6 circuits wont all need to be added the calc, because a few of them have jack **** loading on them. Hope this paragraph makes sense cheers

 

[Andy78]

Fixing to the sheet roof will not be acceptable. If you span between girders/RSJs with a couple of lengths of unistrut you will gain more flexibility for positions to hang fittings from.

Yes the most onerous grouping factor applies with relevance to the installation method. Take note of table 4C1 for example and note that the value of Cg for 12 circuits for methods A to F is 0.45 but for method E is 0.72.

Note 9 under table 4C1 is very worth noting as you point out, and could be a reason for upping the size of cables to be able to include them in this clause. This reason would have to be noted in your project as the minimum calculated size for any circuit is expected to be used unless reasonably stated otherwise.

 

[GEOFF S]

Started the project the other day, and got a few questions about random stuff that people might be able to help me on. Can we fix onto steel cladding (ceiling) ? some of my lights are high bay fittings (fittings I have found weigh 4kg)...and majority of the fittings do not line up with girders (as I was going to use the girder to hang from). The reason I ask if we can fix and hang from steel cladding is because when I had a look online, it seems pretty thin...has anyone had experience fixing and hanging lights from steel cladding? (exterior has a pvc membrane on the steel cladding- so drilling it wont make a hole for water to drip into) - another question that I asked my tutor but he hasn't replied yet is, when im adding grouping factors to containment - do I take the worse case and use that figure in my calcs ? (example - I have a run that passes through 3 different containment runs. one of the containment runs has 2 circuits in it, another containment has 3 circuits in it and the main containment "spine run" as such- has 6 circuits in it ... when working out my calcs, do I apply the Cg with the worse case containment?) I havnt come to working out calcs yet, im just making my routes...so I am aware that the 6 circuits wont all need to be added the calc, because a few of them have jack **** loading on them. Hope this paragraph makes sense cheers

Hi

I Cg is always a contentious area, strictly speaking its only for cable of the same size and loading, there are methods, whether your lecturer and cg will accept them im not sure, that said 2.3.3 of appendix 4 will support . A simple formula is given in app 4 2.3.3.1.

Cheers

 

[Jake1992]

Thanks to you both for your replies - how do you guys think of this: between the steels - Im putting uni-strut from east to west of the building (fixed to the steel main frame) and using threaded rod to drop to lights. Only issue now is containment. I looked on uni-struts website - and have seen that you can buy lid to put on it to contain cables. Uni-strut with lid .... would I use ref method as trunking?

 

[GEOFF S]

Hi

I Cg is always a contentious area, strictly speaking its only for cable of the same size and loading, there are methods, whether your lecturer and cg will accept them im not sure, that said 2.3.3 of appendix 4 will support . A simple formula is given in app 4 2.3.3.1.

Cheers

Hi

Just to note, this statement refers to table 4C1

Cheers

 

[Jake1992]

Hi

Just to note, this statement refers to table 4C1

Cheers

Thankyou looked over that - very interesting read. What do you guys think about using uni-strut (With uni-strut PVC lid) as containment for FP200? And would I class the ref method as trunking?

 

[GEOFF S]

Hi

Have a look at legrand, trunking, lighting trunking and accessories range, they cover tray basket, everything you need.

www.legrand.co.uk/products/cable-management/



Cheers

 

[Jake1992]

Finished the project - handed it in earlier today, just got to wait and see for the corrections

 

[Ryan Wadey]

Hi, I did the same course as you but haven't had any time to start the project. Anyone want some cash for a project?

 

[Joshua]

Has anyone still got a copy of their project?
I've not done the 2396, and to be honest I'm nowhere near ready to do it.

But I'm bored pooless and wouldn't mind having a nose on a completed project.

 

[timbobelfast]

Has anyone still got a copy of their project?
I've not done the 2396, and to be honest I'm nowhere near ready to do it.

But I'm bored pooless and wouldn't mind having a nose on a completed project.

I have some of the 2396 past papers if that floats your lockdown boat?

PM me your email and I will send them over.

 

[NigelBee]

I have some of the 2396 past papers if that floats your lockdown boat?

PM me your email and I will send them over.

Hi hope youre keeping safe and well. Any past papers for 2396 would be super useful especially when theres little else to do right now. Please PM me, thanks in anticipation.

 

[Mark Wright]

Thankyou looked over that - very interesting read. What do you guys think about using uni-strut (With uni-strut PVC lid) as containment for FP200? And would I class the ref method as trunking?

I made a mistake at first the cable and cable containment used and grouping numbers are all in the worksheets.

 

[colmmck]

Hi hope youre keeping safe and well. Any past papers for 2396 would be super useful especially when theres little else to do right now. Please PM me, thanks in anticipation.

HI was wondering could you send me past papers if you have them please

 

[Speeka]

Hello All
Currently attempting the 2023 2396 design course & the project is a small library also. Does C&G reuse their projects? From what i have been reading in this thread it seems like the same exact project, with the same type of roofing mentioned along with the single DB in the intake room. There is no requirement for lumen calculation, along with heating & ventialtion & fire alarm which is being done by other designers for the project.
Im currently getting ready for the test which is in December & seem to be scoring ok on the previous test papers ive managed to get from the training centre, but there is little to no extra help, now the course is over & absolutely zero help from the centre with the project. Not the best training centre to be honest & although my lecturer was decent enough bloke, there's been next to no help after the fact & this is causing me some concern.
If anyone has any tips or examples of previous projects, this would be really appreciated.
Cheers.

S.

 

[timbobelfast]

Hello All
Currently attempting the 2023 2396 design course & the project is a small library also. Does C&G reuse their projects? From what i have been reading in this thread it seems like the same exact project, with the same type of roofing mentioned along with the single DB in the intake room. There is no requirement for lumen calculation, along with heating & ventialtion & fire alarm which is being done by other designers for the project.
Im currently getting ready for the test which is in December & seem to be scoring ok on the previous test papers ive managed to get from the training centre, but there is little to no extra help, now the course is over & absolutely zero help from the centre with the project. Not the best training centre to be honest & although my lecturer was decent enough bloke, there's been next to no help after the fact & this is causing me some concern.
If anyone has any tips or examples of previous projects, this would be really appreciated.
Cheers.

S.

Hi Speeka,

Yes brings back of few memories. Not much support for the 2396 compared with the info available for say the 2391, or whatever it is called these days....

One book that I found useful is

IET Wiring Regulations: Design and Verification of Electrical Installations: Amazon.co.uk: Scaddan, Brian: 9781138606005: Books

Buy IET Wiring Regulations: Design and Verification of Electrical Installations 9 by Scaddan, Brian (ISBN: 9781138606005) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

Seems to be updated for the 18th edition now