Domestic electrician here - question about some light commercial work

[ZEDEZ]

I've been offered some work through a friend of mine - a local animal shelter is adding a new building to their facility which will need an installation.

It's pretty basic - single story cabin with 4 rooms, close to the main supply which is 3 phase. In the cabin it's going to be just sockets, lights, and an instant water heater. Everything is going to be surface mounted, so from that point of view it should be a nice straight forward job.

The things that I don't have experience with that will be required are the emergency lighting and fire alarm system. Also this will be the first time I've run a sub main from a three phase supply,

I have a couple of months before the work will need to start, so I just wanted to take the time and get some advice on whether or not this is the sort of thing I could potentially read up on and undertake myself. I'm comfortable running a phase from the main board, but wondering if I should advise the customer that the emergency lighting and / or fire alarm system would be beyond my experience at this point.

I have a feeling that the emergency lighting is perhaps something I could read up on and undertake, but that I might want to leave the alarm system to a specialist? Failing all of that, if it's going to be too much hassle for the customer or me I'll simply advise to contact an electrical firm that can undertake all of this work in house. Still, I like a challenge and broadening my horizons where it's practical and safe.

No doubt someone here will be able set my straight and point me in the right direction.

Thanking you in advance!

 

[Pete999]

I've been offered some work through a friend of mine - a local animal shelter is adding a new building to their facility which will need an installation.

It's pretty basic - single story cabin with 4 rooms, close to the main supply which is 3 phase. In the cabin it's going to be just sockets, lights, and an instant water heater. Everything is going to be surface mounted, so from that point of view it should be a nice straight forward job.

The things that I don't have experience with that will be required are the emergency lighting and fire alarm system. Also this will be the first time I've run a sub main from a three phase supply,

I have a couple of months before the work will need to start, so I just wanted to take the time and get some advice on whether or not this is the sort of thing I could potentially read up on and undertake myself. I'm comfortable running a phase from the main board, but wondering if I should advise the customer that the emergency lighting and / or fire alarm system would be beyond my experience at this point.

I have a feeling that the emergency lighting is perhaps something I could read up on and undertake, but that I might want to leave the alarm system to a specialist? Failing all of that, if it's going to be too much hassle for the customer or me I'll simply advise to contact an electrical firm that can undertake all of this work in house. Still, I like a challenge and broadening my horizons where it's practical and safe.

No doubt someone here will be able set my straight and point me in the right direction.

Thanking you in advance!

Have you given a price for this work, to include EM lighting and a F/A system?
You could come seriously unstuck with this work ZEDEZ, maybe the best advice will be to come clean and tell your Mate that you are really not experienced enough to do this work, and the best advice you could give them is to go to a reputable company to price design and commission this building in a proper manner.
Doing cheap jobs for mates can lead to all sorts of heartache not just for them, but you as well.
Have you got the right insurance, test gear etc, looks from your profile the answer could be you don't.
Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but I'm just saying how the situation seems to me.

 

[westward10]

Your biggest drawback will be the design of the em ltg and fire alarm systems although this can be done by third party equipment suppliers. You also require the necessary parts of BS5266 and BS5839:1 which give further advice on installation methods etc... If you think BS7671 is expensive these will make your eyes water.

 

[Darkwood]

You need to first find out the kind of use the building has, will there be sleeping quarters, is it going to be part of the original building or is it stand alone etc, what existing system do they have and is it to requirements.
You may also need to discuss this with the local authorities like building control and the fire services, any deviation from the BS5839-1 needs to be documented and agreed by all parties, also when ordering and spec'ing your system it is essential you stipulate in documented format the category of system that it is covering (e.g. L2), this ensues no safety critical mishaps occur and that all parties are fully informed and aware of the system category level, even the suppliers who may not themselves be aware of the regulations but can request a suitable system based on your request.
Your fire system will need to be categorised in order to spec' the fire detection system to understand the requirements you need to follow. You will need to invest in the BS 5839-1, also if you do start going into fire alarm design then the BS5839-6 covers domestic premises so another one to consider (they are not cheap btw).

 

[Nigel]

My initial concern would be insurance. You will need suitable PI insurance for design works. Have you got this?

On top of that is design which is pretty easy if you have the Standards and time to read up on them.

 

[ZEDEZ]

Have you given a price for this work, to include EM lighting and a F/A system?
You could come seriously unstuck with this work ZEDEZ, maybe the best advice will be to come clean and tell your Mate that you are really not experienced enough to do this work, and the best advice you could give them is to go to a reputable company to price design and commission this building in a proper manner.
Doing cheap jobs for mates can lead to all sorts of heartache not just for them, but you as well.
Have you got the right insurance, test gear etc, looks from your profile the answer could be you don't.
Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but I'm just saying how the situation seems to me.

I haven’t given any prices yet, But from what you’re saying I think the sensible thing is to pass on this job. Thanks for the solid advice

 

[Pete999]

I haven’t given any prices yet, But from what you’re saying I think the sensible thing is to pass on this job. Thanks for the solid advice

Good Man

 

[mjroe]

Not wanting to start a fight, but...

It depends if you want to start doing more of this work. If so, then take the challenge, learn what is necessary, get the right cover and training for the job and then go for it!

We all have the capability to learn & do new things, and everybody who is an expert at something was at first inexperienced and a novice. Having said that you should always make sure you are competent to do the work and are deemed by others to be competent too, so if you are unsure then maybe it's not for you.

As westward said, alarm manufacturers or distributors will usually design a system for you so that is not necessarily an issue, but you'd still have to competent to install and commission it.

 

[ZEDEZ]

Your biggest drawback will be the design of the em ltg and fire alarm systems although this can be done by third party equipment suppliers. You also require the necessary parts of BS5266 and BS5839:1 which give further advice on installation methods etc... If you think BS7671 is expensive these will make your eyes water.

Interesting, thanks for the heads up

 

[ZEDEZ]

Not wanting to start a fight, but...

It depends if you want to start doing more of this work. If so, then take the challenge, learn what is necessary, get the right cover and training for the job and then go for it!

We all have the capability to learn & do new things, and everybody who is an expert at something was at first inexperienced and a novice. Having said that you should always make sure you are competent to do the work and are deemed by others to be competent too, so if you are unsure then maybe it's not for you.

As westward said, alarm manufacturers or distributors will usually design a system for you so that is not necessarily an issue, but you'd still have to competent to install and commission it.

I've advised the customer that this is out of the scope of my current experience. I contacted a local firm and checked that they can do all of the required work, to save my customer time I've explained the job to them and given my customer their contact details.

As a bonus the firm were thankful for the referral, are local to me and they seem interested in throwing some work my way, so it's not all bad!

Again, thanks for all the solid advice guys, I really appreciate it

 

[Pete999]

I've advised the customer that this is out of the scope of my current experience. I contacted a local firm and checked that they can do all of the required work, to save my customer time I've explained the job to them and given my customer their contact details.

As a bonus the firm were thankful for the referral, are local to me and they seem interested in throwing some work my way, so it's not all bad!

Again, thanks for all the solid advice guys, I really appreciate it

Try and get yourself onto some F/A and EM Lighting courses some firm will do bespoke training and if you are useing their materials, it can sometime be FOC but not that expensive if you do have to pay. Good luck

 

[ZEDEZ]

You need to first find out the kind of use the building has, will there be sleeping quarters, is it going to be part of the original building or is it stand alone etc, what existing system do they have and is it to requirements.
You may also need to discuss this with the local authorities like building control and the fire services, any deviation from the BS5839-1 needs to be documented and agreed by all parties, also when ordering and spec'ing your system it is essential you stipulate in documented format the category of system that it is covering (e.g. L2), this ensues no safety critical mishaps occur and that all parties are fully informed and aware of the system category level, even the suppliers who may not themselves be aware of the regulations but can request a suitable system based on your request.
Your fire system will need to be categorised in order to spec' the fire detection system to understand the requirements you need to follow. You will need to invest in the BS 5839-1, also if you do start going into fire alarm design then the BS5839-6 covers domestic premises so another one to consider (they are not cheap btw).

Thanks for the detailed information there, it's extremely useful.

As mentioned in other replies, I'm giving this one a miss and referring it on to someone more qualified and experienced

 

[SparkyChick]

Thanks for the detailed information there, it's extremely useful.

As mentioned in other replies, I'm giving this one a miss and referring it on to someone more qualified and experienced

As an alternative approach, see if you can tag along for the experience