Emergency light test key switches.

[sparkticus]

hi, could anyone advise me on the best way of putting some key switches in please.

The job is in a convenience store which has 8 E.L fittings spread over 5 lighting circuits. (the building is over 100 years old and had many additions/shop re-fits and extensions to it)

i have identified the circuits that need the key switches on and was going to put a multi gang grid switch next to C.U. and bring the feeds into these switches and then switch lines away.
My thinking was that this would be a lot cheaper to install and also easier to test the E.L. in the future as all switches are in same location.
Would this be allowed? Would this need a minor works certificate? When testing, it would put parts of the shop floor in darkness, so is out of hours testing the only option?
Any advice or opinions would be grateful, as would any tips or info on E.L installs as not really covered it in my training

Cheers

 

[tazz]

Personally I would rewire the lighting circuits completely, if this is all on one floor, with multi switches, including em test switches all in one place. Suggest full grid switches. Taking 3 core to em lighting and 2 core to standard lighting. Important ting to remember, if some circuits are on different phases, then a 410v potential will be at the switches, so will need to be indicted.

 

[Flanders]

If all the wiring test out Ok I would put the test switch by the DB, but you just need to check that it ok with the customer that they know all the shop lights will go out when testing which has to be done once a year and you will have to do a minor works for each circuit you alter

 

[tazz]

If all the wiring test out Ok I would put the test switch by the DB, but you just need to check that it ok with the customer that they know all the shop lights will go out when testing which has to be done once a year and you will have to do a minor works for each circuit you alter

What about the weekly/monthly tests...??

 

[Flanders]

What about the weekly/monthly tests...??

There just a functional test that could be done before the shop opens so would not course any disruption , I said the yearly test as this is for 3 Hours (God Knows why so long) which would have to be done out of hours if the test switches turned off all the other lights so the customer should be made aware of this.

 

[tazz]

3 hrs is the full discharged time for a maintained fitting. By conducting this test your are also recyling the batteries, so not to form a memory effect. at least on 30min test should also be conducted, along with a weekly visual and quick test...but this is down to risk assessment. The old BS5266 insisted on 3 x 30min test and 1 x 3hr full test, which kept battery life to 5 years. With new testing regs, battery life is now down to 2-3 years.....

 

[Flanders]

Yes I thought they had stopped the 30 min test with the new regs But I still have not got the up to date copy Its about £180 what a rip off

 

[GMES]

Yes I thought they had stopped the 30 min test with the new regs But I still have not got the up to date copy Its about £180 what a rip off

Yeah it is a very expensive book but i suppose em lighting etc is serious stuff. I sometimes get the impression from people that they are unaware of all the responsibility involved in designing a correct installation. most people think it is just a case of scatttering a few Bulkheads around. there is a lot more to it. This is where tazz's knowledge in this field is invaluable.

 

[tazz]

Well this were the bs5266 2011 is now open to interpretation......stating " At least on full 3hr discharge test must be conducted annually" "Additional testing will form part of the risk assessment". So I would say, if you are only going to conduct a test once a year on a large Hotel, without weekly tests conducted by onsite staff, and no other tests by the maintenance company....you are sticking your neck out.

 

[davesparks]

Why install key switches next to the DB when the existing MCB will do exactly the same thing?

 

[tazz]

Why install key switches next to the DB when the existing MCB will do exactly the same thing?

Because you will put the building in darkness, mcb for lighting circuit, keyswitch just for EM lighting

 

[Guest112]

Because you will put the building in darkness, mcb for lighting circuit, keyswitch just for EM lighting

but judging on the OPs intentions the key switches will be doing just that anyway, without alterations to the wiring...

 

[tazz]

but judging on the OPs intentions the key switches will be doing just that anyway, without alterations to the wiring...

Thats what will happen, unless rewired,

 

[davesparks]

Because you will put the building in darkness, mcb for lighting circuit, keyswitch just for EM lighting

How is the keyswitch the OP is going to install next to the DB in the outgoing feed from the DB going to not plunge the building into any more darkness than the MCB will?

 

[tazz]

The live from the mcb feeds the light switch and keyswitch commons, giving separate switching
hope this helps.

 

[Guest112]

All the OP needs to do is wire a Perm feed from the installed key switches and to each fitting on the applicable circuits, may be easier said than done depending on the existing installation, if the install is trunking run to klik roses then easy peasy...

 

[davesparks]

The live from the mcb feeds the light switch and keyswitch commons, giving separate switching
hope this helps.
View attachment 24389

In a normal circuit yes, but that's not what the OP is planning, he's planning to effectively insert the kewswitch into the feed as it leaves the MCB and before the normal lightswitches.

 

[tazz]

In a normal circuit yes, but that's not what the OP is planning, he's planning to effectively insert the kewswitch into the feed as it leaves the MCB and before the normal lightswitches.

Hence my comment in post 13

 

[wozz]

Bit of a guess here, but what jumps out at me is this place has 5 lighting circuits and only 8ems, doesnt seem like much to me considering the number of lighting circuits. Obviously a complete guess as do not know details layout ect.

A firm i used to work for was obsessed with key switches, in situations like this we used to install key switches next to each fitting. If they need replacing could consider self test units.

 

[tazz]

Bit of a guess here, but what jumps out at me is this place has 5 lighting circuits and only 8ems, doesnt seem like much to me considering the number of lighting circuits. Obviously a complete guess as do not know details layout ect.

A firm i used to work for was obsessed with key switches, in situations like this we used to install key switches next to each fitting. If they need replacing could consider self test units.

That a quick way around, if using a looped lighting circuit, Here the idea is to keep everything in one place, on grid switches. Nice and neat, plus easy to find lights switches and test switches.