Extractor Fan not extracting.

[Northern Lars]

I've got a CDA ECP62SS/2 extractor fan that has gradually lost all suction until it's not even switching on anymore. Light still comes on so power is working, just no rotation in the motor at all. I've replaced the motor, capacitor, and switch, to no avail. Running out of ideas.

Parts shop link with manuals: https://parts.cda.eu/Product/ProductDetails?prdId=8762203435012138719

Help?

 

[James]

is it freely rotating with almost no resistance when you turn it by hand?

 

[Northern Lars]

is it freely rotating with almost no resistance when you turn it by hand?

It is, yes. When installing the new motor it still had a little bit of spin to it when I hand-swung it to start, but that was weak too.

 

[Petej999]

It is, yes. When installing the new motor it still had a little bit of spin to it when I hand-swung it to start, but that was weak too.

Is the fan wired in series with anything?

 

[Northern Lars]

Hard to say. It runs off the same isolator switch as the cooker. State of the cooker has no effect on the working of the fan. Used to run fine. ?

 

[Avo Mk8]

The motor illustrated by your Parts Shop link appears to have six or so different coloured connections, as does the switch assembly. Are you confident all the right coloured wires are in the right places ?

 

[Northern Lars]

The motor illustrated by your Parts Shop link appears to have six or so different coloured connections, as does the switch assembly. Are you confident all the right coloured wires are in the right places ?

I took a picture beforehand to make sure there would be no mixup. Was all put back carefully in the same order.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Good work.
I think this requires some diagnosis with a multimeter, together with a circuit diagram if poss..
Do you have either?

Or is the problem now resolved?

 

[Northern Lars]

Good work.
I think this requires some diagnosis with a multimeter, together with a circuit diagram if poss..
Do you have either?

Or is the problem now resolved?

I can borrow a multimeter, not sure about the circuit diagram. There's a limited one on a sticker on the appliance itself, will try and post it here. I'm out of town until Wednesday, will try and post it then.

 

[Northern Lars]

Ok, been doing some testing. Far as I can tell, the wiring all seems OK. The only thing I'm finding weird is that the wires for High, Medium and Low power settings (red, green and yellow) all seem to show 240V when any of them are pushed. The connection is not at the switch end but at the motor end. I don't know if this is a problem or a feature. I've attached wiring diagrams and some photos for reference.

Again, power is going to the motor but nothing is happening. It's a brand new motor so shouldn't be broken, unless a broken capacitor or switch might have fried it since it was installed. Lights work fine.

 

[Northern Lars]

Better photo of the main terminal strip, taken today.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Could I clarify - are you saying that with any fan speed button pressed, you see 240V on all of red, green and yellow?

With one probe on neutral (motor white and the blues), and a speed selected, could you measure if there's a voltage on motor black and then grey.
There shouldn't be on motor black, but if there's 240v the thermal fuse in the motor is open circuit.
And with it all OFF, presumably there's a good solid connection (ie zero ohms) between the motor white and the neutral In the plug?

Otherwise it's down to checking the white/black/grey motor wires are all properly seated in the chocolate block, and the screws are not on the insulation instead of the conductor, but I'm sure you've done that already.

 

[Northern Lars]

Could I clarify - are you saying that with any fan speed button pressed, you see 240V on all of red, green and yellow?

With one probe on neutral (motor white and the blues), and a speed selected, could you measure if there's a voltage on motor black and then grey.
There shouldn't be on motor black, but if there's 240v the thermal fuse in the motor is open circuit.
And with it all OFF, presumably there's a good solid connection (ie zero ohms) between the motor white and the neutral In the plug?

Otherwise it's down to checking the white/black/grey motor wires are all properly seated in the chocolate block, and the screws are not on the insulation instead of the conductor, but I'm sure you've done that already.

On the first point, yes, that's what I'm saying. Although looking at the motor circuit diagram this does make some sense.

There's a good connection on the neutral wires, and everything is connected properly on the chocolate block.

Sure enough there is 240V on both motor grey and motor black, so looks like a thermal fuse. I take it I need to crack open the motor to get at that?

 

[Northern Lars]

Ok, I opened up the motor, and this is what I see. Would the thermal fuse be bundled up with the other wires? Perhaps the black sleeve? Any sensible way to unwind the casing so I reverse it afterwards?

 

[Avo Mk8]

The thermal fuse is there to protect the motor from dramatic overheating, and something fairly serious must have happened for it to fail, such as the motor being stalled. Or it was maybe faulty.
I don't think it's intended to be a serviceable part.

Can you just check with an ohmmeter that there's no resistance from the motor white wire to the other wires?

If not you need a need a new motor ?

 

[Northern Lars]

The thermal fuse is there to protect the motor from dramatic overheating, and something fairly serious must have happened for it to fail, such as the motor being stalled. Or it was maybe faulty.
I don't think it's intended to be a serviceable part.

Can you just check with an ohmmeter that there's no resistance from the motor white wire to the other wires?

If not you need a need a new motor ?

Ok, ohmmeter gives infinite resistance between the white and other wires.

So that means the motor is kaput..?

I can order a new one for not too much, but I just want to be sure the same won't happen again.

When I started fixing the problem, I started with the motor, then the capacitor. Is it likely the capacitor was the component at fault, and this indeed fried the new motor due to the power being on with no rotation, causing an overheat? So if I replace the motor, with the capacitor now working, there should be no more problem?

 

[Avo Mk8]

Ok, ohmmeter gives infinite resistance between the white and other wires.

So that means the motor is kaput..?

I can order a new one for not too much, but I just want to be sure the same won't happen again.

When I started fixing the problem, I started with the motor, then the capacitor. Is it likely the capacitor was the component at fault, and this indeed fried the new motor due to the power being on with no rotation, causing an overheat? So if I replace the motor, with the capacitor now working, there should be no more problem?

I fear the motor is indeed kaput. Wikipedia has a little on the thermal fuse, which might be of interest.

Thermal cutoff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is possible the new motor could have been kaputted by the original capacitor being faulty.
If you still have that original capacitor, have you tried putting an ohmmeter across it? Should read open, but you might see a reading of quickly increasing value, and if you swap the probes over, see that again. That's a sign it might be at least sort of OK.
If it reads short circuit, obviously faulty. If it doesn't show any sign on the meter when you do the above, also possibly faulty.
Note the above is a really crude and unreliable check, but might give an idea of what happened.

On the other hand, if you have a snazzy multimeter which measures capacitance, you can measure it! Although it's possible the capacitor could still be breaking down when in circuit.
Defo don't use the original capacitor ?

I hope replacing the motor and using the more recent capacitor will solve the problem - good luck ?

 

[Northern Lars]

I fear the motor is indeed kaput. Wikipedia has a little on the thermal fuse, which might be of interest.

Thermal cutoff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is possible the new motor could have been kaputted by the original capacitor being faulty.
If you still have that original capacitor, have you tried putting an ohmmeter across it? Should read open, but you might see a reading of quickly increasing value, and if you swap the probes over, see that again. That's a sign it might be at least sort of OK.
If it reads short circuit, obviously faulty. If it doesn't show any sign on the meter when you do the above, also possibly faulty.
Note the above is a really crude and unreliable check, but might give an idea of what happened.

On the other hand, if you have a snazzy multimeter which measures capacitance, you can measure it! Although it's possible the capacitor could still be breaking down when in circuit.
Defo don't use the original capacitor ?

I hope replacing the motor and using the more recent capacitor will solve the problem - good luck ?

The original capacitor is long gone, and I have a cheap and cheerful £8 multimeter, so no capacitance measurement there!

Got a new motor on order, will let you know how I get on when it arrives. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Northern Lars]

Motor arrived today, installed it and she's purring away happily. I can now fry with confidence again!

Thanks again for all the help!