Fire alarm panel & velux kf120

[marc8]

Hi all
just pricing block of flats with 2 AOV panels one over the protected stairwell & the other over a cupboard that is over the top of each floor (each floor has cupboard door).
Been asked that as normal fire system sets off the AOV panel or set off AOV panel & AOV opens, but have been asked that whatever zone on fire panel goes off the door on the corresponding landing will open & the others will remain electrically locked, my question is will this work & how do they I set this up?
I am thinking that addressable fire alarm system using the floors for each zone, when that zone is activated the AOV will activate & the door will open for that landing whilst other landings stay locked.
Would fire alarm panel have this facility (relay or nc / no).
Looking at running power supply to each door location & then FP from alarm panel to each door location.
Probably there is a piece of kit but I am behind the times

 

[tazz]

Addressable will be the answer with output units, how many floors are there,

 

[marc8]

Hi thanks tazz
there are 3 floors just need to check basement level don't think it is included

 

[marc8]

Hi tazz
basement not covered as car parking so 3 levels

 

[tazz]

Car park is quite a risk area and should be cover with heats.OK the output units are wired anywhere on the normal loop, and are basic dry relay contacts, upto 16 amps. Easiest way to do this is 3 ring patterns. With all detection/sounders being pattern 1, and each output unit be 2 & 3.

 

[marc8]

Ok so the output units are from smoke head for instance on each floor as a relay output, then local power supply to each door as that zone is activated the door opens ?

 

[marc8]

Sorry output units from the panel just see it earlier

 

[tazz]

The output units are standalone boxed same size as double socket, or can be din rail type. so can be fitted anywhere on the loop as is goes around the building. So you have a flexible choice. have velux panels on each floor with output units next to them, or have both velux panel together.

 

[marc8]

Both AOV will be fed by the same box they are quite close & the doors are directly below so all good for cabling. Great will put all in the riser next to each other.
Any panel you recommend will give control of system?

 

[tazz]

Good open system system is Morley or Advanced
View attachment DX_Connexion_datasheet[1].pdf

 

[Poult12]

Just out of curiosity - why are they asking for the AOV's to only open on the level the FA has activated?
Surely it is better to have all of them open?

For a former company we had a 9 storey building with AOVs on each level within a cupboard but if the alarm goes off they all open.
Just curiosity

 

[marc8]

Hi poult12
building contractor representative mentioned this was what they wanted during their meeting with their building control & fire officer, I mentioned that I would have had all levels opening together but he has said no. In truth if all the units are at same location then if he has misunderstood their instructions then can change it round if that makes sense.
Aov's to open both at same time, fire door in that corridor to open on that zone if that makes sense

 

[Poult12]

Understood. Just another weird choice by customer and FO.

 

[tazz]

Some consultants think if there is a second outbreak, or the fire spreads to another floor, the open vent would extract smoke away from the detectors. So not giving a second activation.

 

[Poult12]

Some consultants think if there is a second outbreak, or the fire spreads to another floor, the open vent would extract smoke away from the detectors. So not giving a second activation.

Even if a second outbreak the alarm already going off - no one should be waiting around for a second surely?
Well we know this but some just have no common sense.

Also with the fire door opening on the level is it not wise to be having all open to clear the exit route - which is what AOVs designed for?
Or am i being stupid

 

[marc8]

Hi poult12
no there are 2 AOV's one in the protected stairwell all levels,
2nd is in a cupboard just off the hallways to flats each level own door.
My explanation in words may not be the easiest to understand

 

[tazz]

Automatic opening vents, or windows in this case....All depends on building layout, if you have a fully open staircase, its pointless zoning them. If there are fire doors to each floor, sealing the levels, then zoning maybe be a decision to take...Its more for the indication than anything, if you see one zone light, second floor you know its contained, if there are 3 or 4 zones lite, its a raging inferno.

 

[marc8]

Hi tazz

both are AOV on drawing but one in protected stairwell, other on landings with door per floor. are you thinking of zoning the protected stairwell at same time, or would you open this regardless of location of fire, this was my thought open both AOV panels regardless of what zone & only the door on level of activation (cupboard door of level)

 

[tazz]

Are the doors on each floor opening to vent shafts..?

 

[marc8]

Hi tazz
that's it vent shaft on each floor sorry got there in the end my explanation I am afraid

 

[tazz]

Then this is pointless zoning them, unless you can zone each door.....How many extraction doors are there over the 3 floors..?

 

[Harni]

Hi Marc,
so just want to clarify, are you saying you have a smoke shaft with a AOV at the top of it then on each floor, a door opening into the shaft?
if so, I've got lots of sites on one particular contract with this set up and they have a controller on each floor in the shaft to control that door and a panel somewhere (usually top floor riser cupboard) to control the AOV. One I/O unit next to each controller and the rest is just programming which if you fit a advanced, kentec or Morley, will be easy.
Just remember it's a non blocked riser so you need a detector within 1.5m of each door.

 

[marc8]

Hi harni
exactly the above, the other AOV is just in the protected stairwell.

 

[marc8]

Hi harni
what is the controller you are using if you don't mind me asking for the doors

 

[tazz]

Harni, sounds like there is 1 velux control panel for all doors, and another for top of staircase roof.

 

[marc8]

Tazz exactly

 

[tazz]

Are there fire doors separating the staircase to each floor level, which lead to the extraction doors.?

 

[Harni]

AH I see. Ok
the ones we do, the doors are already installed so we just come along and add the IOs and go from there. Most of the door controllers are made by envirovent or SE controls and we just connect up to them.
if all of it is controlled off of 1 velux vent, I'm not sure how you would go about opening 1 door

 

[marc8]

Hi harni
what about control from the fire alarm panel

 

[Harni]

It's all dependant on the AOV panel.
if it's just a global evac style input then I can't see how you could do the doors individually. There may be some sort of programming you can set up with the velux panel but I can't seem to find a manual for it!
setting up the fire alarm side is easy but it's all dependant on how the velux panel functions

 

[tazz]

If theres fire doors as my previous, I can see what BC/FO are after Harni......staircase zoned as usually, any fire, he want smoke unhindered by other vents straight up and out, if lobby or corridor off staircase, all extract doors & top of shaft to open unhindered aswell....spread of fire from one the the other opens all/next.

 

[marc8]

Hi harni
normally we would use our fire panel linked to relay in the AOV so it activates the AOV on any signal.
Then just how I operate the fire doors, but I suspect they should open all together but if they want them independent then I will try to make it work

 

[Harni]

Yeah i can see what it is that he wants to do. Makes complete sense but i think the issue is going to be opening each door individually. E.g fire on floor 1, only door on floor 1 opens into the shaft. It depends on the Velux controller (which if I've understood correctly, also controls these doors?) and if it can open individual doors.

 

[marc8]

Hi harni
what about velux opening under any fault on fire alarm panel & using 3 zone panel then use each floor as a zone & each door activated of whatever zone would that work.