Fire hoods on recessed lights

[adammid]

Can someone tell me if it a requirement to have fire hoods fitted to halogen recessed lights. The lights are fitted in a kitchen with a bedroom above, which has wooden floor boards and the joists are approx 4 inches deep.

 

[Hiddo]

Are the fittings fire rated?

 

[adammid]

No. They are the most basic recessed lights, no fire rating what so ever.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

Yes you need to fit them

 

[High Tower]

To be fair you don't.

Fire hoods are only required between building compartments so the upstairs and down do not class as this due to be big hole in the stairs.

However it is good practice to fit them or fire rated fittings.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

I thought it was if any dwelling above you needed to retain the fire integrity of the ceiling

 

[adammid]

Robert- Thats what I thought and I have asked a few people and they say the same, yet some people say that I don't. Can anyone shed any light.

High Power- I understand that in a domestic property it is all classed as one building compartment, however like Robert says above, the fire integrity of the ceiling needs to be retained.

 

[markc123]

Are these going to be inspected by a building inspector? Because if they are, i would suggest yes they need to be fitted. I'd hate to be picked up on that after an install.

It depends on the installation itself IMO, how much insulation is in the ceiling (if any) ? Its down to judgement, although i consider it good practice to fit them and i suggest you should no matter what the installation compromises of - its better to be safe than sorry.

I don't have a copy of the building regs to hand, surely it must mention it in there somewhere?

Im sure i once read somewhere that it's the ability of the floor to remain intact for a certain period of time (in the event of a fire) - which is the ultimate deciding factor as to whether to fittings need to be fire-rated or not. DO NOT quote me on that though.

 

[yellowvanman]

My understanding is that in one property (one owner) no need for hoods although good practise - when floor/ceiling is between 2 different properties (flats) then yes hoods are required.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

If that's the cases I've wasted many hours over the ****ing about with hoods. As that means 99% of houses aren't going to need them.

I'd fit a fire rated fitting if you can just because they aren't as much messing about and your can get them so cheap these days

 

[markc123]

Suppose it ultimatley comes down to the installer himself as he is the only one who has the knowledge of that situation.

I would personally fit them(where possible), but, yellowvanmans answer does seem credible.

Surely surely it has to be in the building regs somewhere? Can anyone be bothered to check, because i can't at the moment

 

[Darkwood]

You can get good quality fire rated recess gu10's now for alot less than a tenner and regardless of small details of building reg's i would call it good practice to fit them in all cases .... an half hour window from a fire penetrating into the bedroom through a light fitting has got to be a no brainer in any situe.

 

[adammid]

I agree Dark Wood, I would still like to know what it ACTUALLY says in the regs, how about if you were pricing a big job, a few quid on every light could make all the difference and if they aren't required then you could easily lose out on the job.

 

[Darkwood]

You price with fire rated and explain to customer the benefits but you could save them x amount with standard ... i find it difficult for any customer to not consider fitting fire rated especially when explained that other quotes may be cheaper for said reasons but family safety is your priority when pricing and the reg's dont sit in the 17th they are part of building regs and i believe they are as mentioned between building compartments.

Not been the cheapest qoute only loses the job if you lack customer relation skills and this senerio gives you a good angle of approach with regards to family safety.

 

[High Tower]

It's nothing to do with the 17th it all comes under building regs, as I said in most houses they are not needed, in maisonettes and flats they are.

However, I would always order fire rated units in every case, just because I don't need to I'd still rather fit them

 

[SYKRAPS]

I thought it was if any dwelling above you needed to retain the fire integrity of the ceiling

As electricians we can not be responsible to determine this surely it a building regs issue, I fit fire rated models as a matter of course now though with LED lamps if possible. LED's have a lower heat output and save money after the original install cost so IMO safer and more Energy efficient.

 

[Henryk]

Read the electrical safety council guide to down lighters guys

 

[adammid]

What does it say Henry and where can i find the document. Regards

 

[telectrix]

i have just fitted 12 fire rated, with LEDs, in a bedroom fo a client. because the fire rated fittings are so much deeper than non fire rated, i spent ove an hour pulling out insulation so as to make room for the fittings. bloody fibreglass itchy snot, might save a few quid on the heating bills: what about the cost of flood damage when the plumber's junk in the attic freezes and thaws?

 

[Darkwood]

What does it say Henry and where can i find the document. Regards

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/use...s/Downlighter_trade-_web_ready-_July_2012.pdf
Lets assume you are on a computer ... we like to try help anyway we can but at least try a little harder yourself before asking ....google is an amazing world of info'.... i found it on the first search near the top of the list.... come adammid i hope you show more intenuity at work.:yes:

Once you have read through it - it gives the impression that you must maintain the fire rating of any material you recess into so it would thus imply that a suitable fire rated fitting be used or the use of alternatives like hoods etc where the fitting dosn't give fire protection in all circumstances of which i agree and this is why i always fit fire rated fittings in all circumstances.

 

[telectrix]

fire hoods. turn them right side up. fill with a good fisons product, grow cannabis seeds.

 

[martinh287]

Fire hoods are installed to maintain the fire rating on the roof/ceiling as if a hole was never there. Any hole larger then 50mm needs provisions put into place to maintain the fire integrity of the building structure

 

[MDJ]

1.2.9 page 57 and 1.3.4 of the building regs basically back up high towers comments, these are recommendations not set in stone, if you read it properly it is guidlines, however good practise to use fire rated lights IMO

 

[telectrix]

what a lot of posters are missing is the fact that a sinle occupancy dwelling ( i.e. 1 family ) is a single fire compartment and as such does not require fire rated reinstatement of ceilings between rooms and floors except in the case of an integral garage, which is classed as a separate fire compartment.

 

[DNS1]

Agreed.

I always understood it to mean that fire rated were only necessary if in the ceiling of a property which had a property above.

I'm not sure how it works with older properties though. I live in a flat with a concrete floor separating me from the flat below. The 6" of concrete is the fire barrier as I understand it, not the plasterboard that the person downstairs has on their ceiling. Don't see why he'd need fire rated downlighters or hoods.

 

[Lefke Lad]

I too would rather fit fire rated (and have done). Screwfix do a contractor pack of ten for about £70, if I remember right. I find them simpler and tidier to use myself and see fire hoods as only necessary if you have insulation anywhere nearby.

 

[DNS1]

To be honest I fit the fire rated ones just for simplicity. Can't be bothered with faffing with the ones which are just a piece of metal, some springs and a connector.

 

[Darkwood]

I too would rather fit fire rated (and have done). Screwfix do a contractor pack of ten for about £70, if I remember right. I find them simpler and tidier to use myself and see fire hoods as only necessary if you have insulation anywhere nearby.

Clearly you are not aware of the reasons for having fire hoods or fire rated fittings .... what and where the insulation is has nothing to do with this debate... if a fire happens in the room that the fittings are in then the fittings should be able to withstand the same fire rating as the material they are cut into i.e. if through plasterboard which give approx 20mins fire protection then the fitting should also achieve the same fire rating, i may have read your post wrong as its ambiguous but alot of modern fittings allow insulation to cover them.

 

[Octopus]

I agree Dark Wood, I would still like to know what it ACTUALLY says in the regs, how about if you were pricing a big job, a few quid on every light could make all the difference and if they aren't required then you could easily lose out on the job.

Have you got a copy and could you read them?

 

[MDJ]

:laugh3: haha that made me laugh out loud haha

 

[GLENNSPARK]

As electricians we can not be responsible to determine this surely it a building regs issue, I fit fire rated models as a matter of course now though with LED lamps if possible. LED's have a lower heat output and save money after the original install cost so IMO safer and more Energy efficient.

yes and as electricians its our duty to ensure that any works we carry out is not detrimental to the integrity of the building and persons and/or livestock......this includes fire.....

 

[rattlehead85]

This shouldn't even be up for debate. Refer to table 1 page 9 of Best Practice Guide 5 issued by the IET. It tells you in black and white whete you need to fit these. You will find that unless the floorboards and of a certain construction and the joists of a specific thickness you will need to fit them.

 

[adammid]

Murdoch well done for the smart arse comment, I was implying the building regs not the BS7671.

 

[Octopus]

Murdoch well done for the smart arse comment, I was implying the building regs not the BS7671.

You were not very clear were you!! As you say you were "implying" and you'll see that my posts include the comment about us "not being mind readers"

 

[Robert Turnbull]

I thought it was if any dwelling above you needed to retain the fire integrity of the ceiling

As electricians we can not be responsible to determine this surely it a building regs issue, I fit fire rated models as a matter of course now though with LED lamps if possible. LED's have a lower heat output and save money after the original install cost so IMO safer and more Energy efficient.

Its part of your duty to consider any building regs that are affected by the work to are undertaking.