Gas Meter earth

[Aok1]

A customers gas meter is in the kitchen approximately 12m away from the Met which is located in the hall.

The suppliers wont change the gas until an earth is present.

I can get a cable to the meter part externally and internally, total cable length 12m, whilst i was there the guy from the supplier seems to think this is not acceptable and the bond needs to be were the pipe comes into the house?

I Thought that bonding conductor should be within 600mm of the service meter on the consumers side or at the point of entry into the building ?

Advice please.

 

[Swicade]

I also thought it was within 600mm of the service meter on consumer side tbh.

Not sure if some of the Gas safe rules have changed but lately i've had quite afew run in with Gas meter/service/maintenance guys about earth cables,fused/switch fused spurs, fuse sizing and cable sizing in the last couple of months. Could be a new influx of 'text book' gas engineers/jobsworths running around......or i'm just wrong in general

 

[Aok1]

I have checked about and it does seem to be within 600mm and on consumer side, my mate who is gas safe seems to agree with me though.

 

[Octopus]

600mm after the meter on the consumer side, before any junctions in the pipework, and importantly "where practical".

Make sense of that!

 

[Moses]

600mm after the meter on the consumer side, before any junctions in the pipework, and importantly "where practical".

Make sense of that!

You r right, 600mm on the consumer side.

I think the gas rules determine, the consumer side to start where the pipe starts on the insde of the wall coming from the meter.

 

[T&Earth]

Hi I understood it was within 600mm of meter or where it enters the building!!


T&E

 

[Octopus]

You r right, 600mm on the consumer side.

I think the gas rules determine, the consumer side to start where the pipe starts on the insde of the wall coming from the meter.

Seen many outside with junctions outside too so the "inside bit" is irrelevent.

 

[Knobhead]

Will you guys keep in mind “where practical”.

You’re not working to gas safe regs but BS7671.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog!

 

[sjm]

I thought the 600mm rule was only for internal meters. Otherwise it's as close as practicable to the point of entry to the property.

 

[Octopus]

Its amazing how many different "interpretations" there are on this thread. BS 7671 needs to be re-written by the plain english society, with more diagrams.

 

[sedgy34]

stick to what your taught the 600mm rule!!! others who try and change things to what they want can do it themselves

 

[Octopus]

I thought the 600mm rule was only for internal meters. Otherwise it's as close as practicable to the point of entry to the property.

So what happens if there is a junction in the gas pipe, close to the meter, a few meters from the entry point to the dwelling then?

 

[Sav]

I had a run in with a gas engineer who said that we have to put 6mm supplementary bonding across the pipes below the combi boiler !!

It was a rewire with upgraded 16mm main earth and 10mm main bonding protective conductors to gas and water.

The customer tried to deduct money from our final price, saying that the engineer advised him that "we have left the pipework at a dangerous level should a fault arise" !!

The only fault I told the customer was getting Laurel and Hardy to install the boiler !!

I explained about not requiring supplementary bonding in line with the regulations, even though we cross bonded the boiler, bath and kitchen sink with 4mm earth (old school lessons I was taught ) and the bond was continuous, unlike the 6mm the gas guy put, which was cut at each clamp !!

Oh well,

Sav

 

[snowhead]

And did the "boiler fitter" fail to notice the steel bracket he fitted which holds the isolation taps for all the pipes and happens to cross bond all the pipes at the same time.

 

[Des 56]

Boilers
I hear those nightmare words echoing again,"Manufacturers instructions"

Of course you are right,that is until the gas guy opens his book and sees an instruction to bond them,you are then trumped

All the classroom instruction and years of design and installation you may have undertaken, has to be thrown aside, because some Japanese scriptwriter who can't speak English like us "tidy"Welsh people ,inserts his drivel

The regs should be amended as soon as,to redress this issue

 

[sjm]

So what happens if there is a junction in the gas pipe, close to the meter, a few meters from the entry point to the dwelling then?

As all gas pipes are continuous copper I think if you tested continuity between the point where you should bond and the point where you do bond you'll get a value below 0.05 ohms.

See page 41 of the OSG. Table 4.4(ii) note iii with reference to reg 544.1.2.
Where practicable, the connection to the gas, water, oil, etc, service should be within 600 mm of the service meter, or at the point of entry to the building if the service meter is external and must be on the consumer's side before any branch pipework and after any insulating section in the service.
Hence this implies that the 600 mm rule is for internal meters. Other than that, regarding your question, you're the professional you decide!

 

[oldtimer]

600mm after the meter on the consumer side, before any junctions in the pipework, and importantly "where practical".

Make sense of that!

Yep I have noticed that is some flats they are putting the meter at ground level for the meter reader but they run the supply pipe up the external wall so is it 600mm from the meter and that means running the earth outside or is it 600mm as it enters the property me thinks the later but as always these gas safe guys are told 600mm at the meter and thats it

 

[snowhead]

and that means running the earth outside or is it 600mm as it enters the property me thinks the later but as always these gas safe guys are told 600mm at the meter and thats it

From Viper, a Gas bible;

The cross bonding clamp should be attached to the carcass pipe not more than 600mm from the meter (internal meters).
For meters located in outside meter boxes the cross bonding should be inside the building as near a practicable to the point of entry of the installation pipe.
The bonding may be attached within the meter box providing the integrity of the meter boz or any sleeving is not compromised.

 

[Knobhead]

Have a look at http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...al-regulations/46129-just-start-argument.html

 

[Geordie Spark]

Seen many outside with junctions outside too so the "inside bit" is irrelevent.

Yes ...... mine's like that.

 

[DurhamSparky]

i fit the green yellow cable where i see fit and Pratical. if it means been 5-6 meter from teh intake and after a t piece so be it!

my install my take on regs..! stick , pipe , smoke

 

[Geordie Spark]

i fit the green yellow cable where i see fit and Pratical. if it means been 5-6 meter from teh intake and after a t piece so be it!

my install my take on regs..! stick , pipe , smoke

Aye .. it's the Geordie (or in your case maybe the Mackem) way !!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Boilers
I hear those nightmare words echoing again,"Manufacturers instructions"

Of course you are right,that is until the gas guy opens his book and sees an instruction to bond them,you are then trumped

All the classroom instruction and years of design and installation you may have undertaken, has to be thrown aside, because some Japanese scriptwriter who can't speak English like us "tidy"Welsh people ,inserts his drivel

The regs should be amended as soon as,to redress this issue

Well I had a foot in both camps as both a Spark AND Gas Fitter, so if I was installing a boiler, I would bond ALL the pipes under the boiler, but if I was attending in my capacity as a spark, I wouldn't.

(and they wonder why I'm a bit schizophrenic)

 

[DurhamSparky]

Im a Pit Yakker! not a bloody mac"scum".............. Durham Coal Fields Born and Bred.... i remember the winding gear, i remember the coal train... mind you had to go to easington to see it.... family of miners not half built shipyard workers with nee keeys...!

we used to be friends...!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Im a Pit Yakker! not a bloody mac"scum".............. Durham Coal Fields Born and Bread.... i remember the winding gear, i remember the coal train... mind you had to go to easington to see it.... family of miners not half built shipyard workers with nee keeys...!

we used to be friends...!

Sorry bonny lad - I meant no harm - but it's BRED (as in breeding) not BREAD (as in what ye dip in yer gravy)..... only a Mackem would confuse the two

 

[DurhamSparky]

lol................

 

[Moses]

I thought the 600mm rule was only for internal meters. Otherwise it's as close as practicable to the point of entry to the property.

I agree, it complies with BS7671 and gas regs.

Meter inside the property, then within 600mm of the meter before any Tee or branch.

Meter outside then within 600mm of the point of entry.

 

[sedgy34]

i did some apartments point of entry in each apartment was at the boiler the gas meters were in the carpark basement so i bonded at the boilers as that was my point of entry in the apartment and that is where the potential could be, the plumbers wanted the meters bonded or else they wouldnt sign off the new install.i ended up bonding them but i got paid to do it.

 

[DurhamSparky]

it always annoys me that plumbers cant install there own bonding!!

 

[JD Hogg]

i did some apartments point of entry in each apartment was at the boiler the gas meters were in the carpark basement so i bonded at the boilers as that was my point of entry in the apartment and that is where the potential could be, the plumbers wanted the meters bonded or else they wouldnt sign off the new install.i ended up bonding them but i got paid to do it.

I had a similar situation recently so called NICEIC Tech helpline who said bond the gas as close as possible to where the pipe enters the flat

 

[sedgy34]

exactly what i did matey, plumbers on site think its down for us to bond when its a gas reg not a wiring reg i dont mind but i make sure someone is paying for it first