Installing a shower.

[alanmcm]

Hi guys dont post much but have a hopefully simple enough problem.

Not long finished my time at the grand age of 34. Spent the entire time working in a quarry and commercial properties and zero time on domestic installs.

Issue is I'm doing a homer for a guy in the quarry and I'm installing a shower. Well getting the cable in for the shower, the bathroom fitters are doing the rest. Theres plenty of space in the existing dist board for the 50a MCB to go in but as the bathroom fitters wont be installing for another 4 weeks I was going to add another board in just for the shower. That way I can connect up the cable and keep it locked off, until that date and he can unlock it himself.

Ive the 10mm cable in position at the board and upstairs at the bathroom wall. If I'm putting in a new shower board do I come off the supply side of the board by putting the mains into an isco and splitting from that? Or should I connect straight into the supply side of the rcd on the main dist board?

 

[Wilko]

Hi Alan, personally I would keep the one DB if it all fits there. Cheers, David.

 

[Pete999]

Why bother with a new board Alan? if as you say there is plenty of space in the existing board, just add your new MCB, save your mate some dosh and you some heartache trying to wire a supply to a new board.

Just a thought, has your existing Consumers Unit have RCDs incorporated in it's construction?

 

[alanmcm]

The reason for wiring in a new board is so I can connect it up and its a simple switch on when the bathroom fitters have finished. Don't fancy connecting up the neutral and earth in the existing board and leaving them for the fitter to connect up, don't think it would be safe. I'm just trying to avoid a further visit as its about an hours drive. Money isn't a problem for the job as its been booked through the company he works for and there trying to spend the budget. I'm only concerned with leaving the neutral and earth connected in the dist board. I would connect in the live into the mcb and lock it off and give him the key.

 

[Midwest]

If you really worried about safe isolation, and I suppose we should be, there are a number of devices available to lock off isolator switches, or just don't terminate the cable into the CU until the bathroom has been installed.

PS or even don't terminate the cables into the isolator

 

[David M]

If you are installing a separate CU with its own stand alone RCD then you would not want to supply this from the existing RCD. Provided the new board is rated to the DNO fuse then you can split into the the main tails no problem.

Personally I think you may be over killing the job though. (without knowing the full extent of the situation) Also its vital that you complete all the testing before and after the circuit is energized.

I would install the cables & associated isolator but leave the cable & the additional MCB out of the existing CCU. I would then get the client to give me a call when all the other work is complete and the shower is ready for commissioning. That way you can personally check all connections are correct and tight (which is a big issue with shower supplys) complete the dead testing, energize the circuit yourself to make sure everything is ok, also bear in mind you need to do the live tests to complete an installation cert.

 

[alanmcm]

If you are installing a separate CU with its own stand alone RCD then you would not want to supply this from the existing RCD. Provided the new board is rated to the DNO fuse then you can split into the the main tails no problem.

Personally I think you may be over killing the job though. (without knowing the full extent of the situation)

I would install the cables & associated isolator but leave the cable & the additional MCB out of the existing CCU. I would then get the client to give me a call when all the other work is complete and the shower is ready for commissioning. That way you can personally check all connections are correct and tight (which is a big issue with shower supplies) complete the testing, energize the circuit yourself to make sure everything is ok, also bear in mind you need to do the live tests to complete an installation cert.

Seems the most feasible way of doing it. Ive to go back next weekend to install some conduit as the cable is out of the wall and up the inside wall of the garage to the floor level above. Didn't fancy ripping the place apart too much to install a cable through the false ceiling under the stairs. I don't even have to install the isolator or anything else associated with the job other than the supply up. The fitters are doing it and the bathroom at the same time. I don't know how qualified they are for electrics, probably another reason I should check when installation is complete for my own peace of mind.

The board has about 5 free ways in it left, think ill go with the majority and put the mcb in with the existing board. The RCD on the existing board is sufficient protection? I wouldn't need a 50A RCBO, a 50A MCB would suffice?

 

[Taylortwocities]

As an aside, as this is all notificabIe work,
> a new circuit and electrical works in a bathroom <
I assume that you are a member of a CPS, or that you've raised a building notice case with the local authority?

 

[Midwest]

As an aside, as this is all notificabIe work,
> a new circuit and electrical works in a bathroom <
I assume that you are a member of a CPS, or that you've raised a building notice case with the local authority?

Dooooh!

 

[alanmcm]

As an aside, as this is all notificabIe work,
> a new circuit and electrical works in a bathroom <
I assume that you are a member of a CPS, or that you've raised a building notice case with the local authority?

Im a member of NICEIC over here in Northern Ireland. Not sure about notifying the local authority, I usually have all my jobs planned for me and any work in the quarry I just get on with and test when installing new circuits. I record the results and hand into the office at work.

 

[Midwest]

Doooh Doooh

 

[Leesparkykent]

Are there any other big loads on existing board like electric heating, induction hobs etc? If there is it might not be a bad option adding in the other board fed off of some Henley/isco blocks imo.

 

[alanmcm]

No theres no other big loads on the board other than the cooker. Has a couple of rings for sockets, lighting and an alarm and the lights in the garage and sockets in the garage. Its well under the demand limits and I could keep it on the existing board without any drama. Im probably over thinking it and being too cautious in regards to it being over the max demand.

It would make my life easier installing an MCB and not having to install separate board and accessories to complete. Havent a clue what to even charge the guy for the work either. Very rarely do 'homers' as they are more hassle than their worth. Last one I done, which was my first one, I fell down stairs in a bungalow. Cat in the house got spooked and bolted out in front of me when I was carrying everything, off work for a week with a sprained ankle.

 

[Leesparkykent]

No theres no other big loads on the board other than the cooker. Has a couple of rings for sockets, lighting and an alarm and the lights in the garage and sockets in the garage. Its well under the demand limits and I could keep it on the existing board without any drama. Im probably over thinking it and being too cautious in regards to it being over the max demand.

It would make my life easier installing an MCB and not having to install separate board and accessories to complete. Havent a clue what to even charge the guy for the work either. Very rarely do 'homers' as they are more hassle than their worth. Last one I done, which was my first one, I fell down stairs in a bungalow. Cat in the house got spooked and bolted out in front of me when I was carrying everything, off work for a week with a sprained ankle.

I would say an hourly rate of between £25-£30 an hour plus any expenses like fuel and the cost of material.

 

[alanmcm]

I would say an hourly rate of between £25-£30 an hour plus any expenses like fuel and the cost of material.

I would feel terrible charging that lol. Hate asking for money from people as well, Ill maybe be conservative and go for £20 an hour. And before anyone comments about notifying the tax office, I don't think it will be applicable for this job.

And thanks for the help everyone.

 

[westward10]

Fell down stairs in a bungalow? See no point adding another board, ample capacity in the existing one.

 

[David M]

The board has about 5 free ways in it left, think ill go with the majority and put the mcb in with the existing board. The RCD on the existing board is sufficient protection? I wouldn't need a 50A RCBO, a 50A MCB would suffice?

You would not install a RCBO fed from the existing RCD. The existing RCD supplying the additional MCB should be just fine, provided it tests out ok. You could install a RCBO dedicated for the shower circuit if the existing CU has room or can be simply modified to accept one fed direct from the main CU switch (assuming the CU has one). I guess this would be the ideal option, though the cost and practicality may not make it viable.

 

[David M]

Fell down stairs in a bungalow? See no point adding another board, ample capacity in the existing one.

Could be a dormer

 

[alanmcm]

Could be a dormer

Bungalow converted with a room above the double garage. Had all the work finished and then bang down the stairs. Fair to say they didn't invite me back after that. Think I will go for the easy option and install an MCB in the board and make sure all tests meet requirements.

Much appreciated everyone thanks again.

 

[David M]

Its always better to do a good job, at a fair price that is - safe, reliable and meets at the very least the minimum requirements. That way you can sleep at night and live a much longer happier life.