No Earth whatsoever

[maudy]

Hi All

I went to a job today which had a 1930's install. VIR, 5 amp plugs for heaters, the works. Also no earth whatsoever. Some cpcs connected together as protection but that was all. The house isn't occupied. Its a total rewire from the intake out.

As the work doesn't start for a few weeks, I told the owner to contact EDF to get them to install an earth. (I realise that I should have made this call myself to avoid the Chinese whispers scenario but, hey ho, I didn't).

Apparently EDF told the owner that it could be either PME or TNS and that the electrician (me) should install the earth clamp / connection in the appropriate location and they would be along in 8 weeks to test it!

I always understood that this is the SUPPLIER EARTH because it is provided by THE SUPPLIER. Whilst I have no problem putting a clamp on the intake pipe and Ze testing it, i didn't think that this was my job to do.

Should I be making a call to EDF myself or just providing an earth??

 

[Deleted member 9648]

My understanding is you cant officially connect a TNCS to the service head yourself...and clamping a TNS to the sheath should be carried out by the supplyer.....I'd connect a temp TNS using a constant pressure clamp...(not a bonding clamp)...and ask EDF to connect a PME after the rewire and final EIC is issued.

 

[sjm]

Surely the earth connection is the responsibility of the DNO not the supplier, as their responsibility is only for the meter and tails from the cut out to the meter.

Western Power will no longer make new PME connections to overhead networks, well not here in Cornwall anyway. So you may not get an earth connection from the DNO depending on your location.

 

[Octopus]

If you are going to do a rewire, you should install a temporary board, isolation switch and a nice deep earth stake in the garden, do your EIC confirming dead tests and get the DNO in to connect the mater tails to your isolator.

 

[Engineer54]

Surely the earth connection is the responsibility of the DNO not the supplier, as their responsibility is only for the meter and tails from the cut out to the meter.

Western Power will no longer make new PME connections to overhead networks, well not here in Cornwall anyway. So you may not get an earth connection from the DNO depending on your location.

So why is that then??

 

[Knobhead]

Have a look at Western Power Distribution - Type of Earthing

 

[Engineer54]

Have a look at Western Power Distribution - Type of Earthing

Can't see anything there, relating to ''why'' they will no longer provide a PME connection from an overhead supply?? Unless i'm looking in the wrong places, but i did try a few pages on the site that might have covered the why, ...but didn't!! lol!!!

 

[Knobhead]

I try to help, I'm not reading through all the bumf for someone else's problem!

Conntact Western Power!

 

[Engineer54]

Errrr, ...I think i'll pass on that one Tony...lol!!!

 

[maudy]

Surely the earth connection is the responsibility of the DNO not the supplier, as their responsibility is only for the meter and tails from the cut out to the meter.

Western Power will no longer make new PME connections to overhead networks, well not here in Cornwall anyway. So you may not get an earth connection from the DNO depending on your location.

edf are the DNO

 

[sjm]

edf are the DNO

Are you sure???
I think ofgem would disagree with you!
EDF are a french owned electricity supply company and do not operate any electricity distribution network in the UK.
Check out this link. Electricity Distributors

 

[maudy]

Are you sure???
I think ofgem would disagree with you!
EDF are a french owned electricity supply company and do not operate any electricity distribution network in the UK.
Check out this link. Electricity Distributors

ok, so i'm a bit out of date......

UK Power Networks is a distribution network operator for electricity covering South East England, the East of England and London.
The area previously comprised three networks known as the London Electricity Board, Eastern Electricity, and South Eastern Electricity board, before being brought together by EDF Energy to form EDF Energy Networks.
UK Power Networks began operations in October 2010[SUP][1][/SUP] following the sale of EDF Energy Networks to Cheung Kong Infrastructure Holdings, Power Assets Holdings and The Li Ka Shing Foundation in July 2010.[SUP][2][/SUP]

 

[maudy]

If you are going to do a rewire, you should install a temporary board, isolation switch and a nice deep earth stake in the garden, do your EIC confirming dead tests and get the DNO in to connect the mater tails to your isolator.

Nice one Murdoch

That was one of my plans, but nice to have it confirmed.

 

[Octopus]

Nice one Murdoch

That was one of my plans, but nice to have it confirmed.

PLUS you need to warn you customer of potential additional costs and waiting times!!

 

[DurhamSparky]

^^ as above posts


DNO Time

 

[maudy]

PLUS you need to warn you customer of potential additional costs and waiting times!!

looks like about 12 weeks - not that time will be any problem if I sink a good rod.

Any idea on £££'s? Ballpark

 

[Octopus]

looks like about 12 weeks - not that time will be any problem if I sink a good rod.

Any idea on £££'s? Ballpark

Use your crystal ball. Anything between £0 and £1600 if my memory serves me correctly. and yes I had a customer who wasn't charged but it took over 3 months to sort out!

 

[daimack]

If its any help Maudy, I had a similar issue a few weeks ago where I thought I was going to have to drive an earth rod for an old system, also with no apparent earth. On the advice of Engineer54 (cheers mate, I owe you a beer if we ever meet!) and others, I spoke to Western Power about PME and in fairness to them they sent a very nice man along within a week or so who PME'd it for me, and I've just got a bill for £42.61 inc vat. He also popped an isolator switch in for me too (did I mention he was a very nice man?)

 

[telectrix]

If its any help Maudy, I had a similar issue a few weeks ago where I thought I was going to have to drive an earth rod for an old system, also with no apparent earth. On the advice of Engineer54 (cheers mate, I owe you a beer if we ever meet!) and others, I spoke to Western Power about PME and in fairness to them they sent a very nice man along within a week or so who PME'd it for me, and I've just got a bill for £42.61 inc vat. He also popped an isolator switch in for me too (did I mention he was a very nice man?)

that sounds like they've don it for free and just charged for the isolator. a good result there. wish all DNOs were the same.

 

[Engineer54]

My understanding is you cant officially connect a TNCS to the service head yourself...and clamping a TNS to the sheath should be carried out by the supplyer.....I'd connect a temp TNS using a constant pressure clamp...(not a bonding clamp)...and ask EDF to connect a PME after the rewire and final EIC is issued.

That's what i'd do, ...but i'm not so sure about asking for a PME connection over a TN-S!! I'd see what sort of Ze value i was getting first. And a few pointed questions to the DNO guy that they eventually send round to test it... lol!!

 

[trev]

not that time will be any problem if I sink a good rod.

One rod will probably not be much good mate, get the 5/8 couplable ones and go deep.

 

[drew35]

I spoke to Western Power this week for the same problem and was told the charge for PME was £35+vat if you already had PME or £113+vat if you didn't, WTF???????? The trouble is they're trying to make money now where previously they didn't bother. And no longer can you speak to an "engineer" directly you call a central number and talk to a woman with PMS about PME.

 

[Engineer54]

If there was an existing TN-S or PME connection you just remind them of their statutory duty to maintain their earthing connection. If the distribution cable that is supplying your house/property has been PME'd, but they want to charge you for a bit of 16mm link connection, contact the ombudsman, i bet you'll get it sorted for nothing in the end!! lol!!