Electrician to connect tails after isolator fitted (EDF)

[happysteve]

If there isn't a 2-pole isolator there already, I usually get the client to arrange to get one fitted before I do a board change, either through their energy supplier, or (if they also need a PME earth, or their energy supplier is faffing around) through National Grid (formerly WPD).

Every time before, whoever does it, they've come and done the job, connected the client's existing tails to the isolator, re-energised, done a quick polarity check at a socket, all done. I don't need to be there. All good.

A client, who's getting EDF to install the isolator, has been told by them (in writing) that they will need to get an electrician to connect "their wires" to the new isolator, and they won't have power until that's done.

It's a pain, because now I'm at their beck and call. Is this normal? Is this just EDF? It just doesn't seem sane.

 

[suffolkspark]

If there isn't a 2-pole isolator there already, I usually get the client to arrange to get one fitted before I do a board change, either through their energy supplier, or (if they also need a PME earth, or their energy supplier is faffing around) through National Grid (formerly WPD).

Every time before, whoever does it, they've come and done the job, connected the client's existing tails to the isolator, re-energised, done a quick polarity check at a socket, all done. I don't need to be there. All good.

A client, who's getting EDF to install the isolator, has been told by them (in writing) that they will need to get an electrician to connect "their wires" to the new isolator, and they won't have power until that's done.

It's a pain, because now I'm at their beck and call. Is this normal? Is this just EDF? It just doesn't seem sane.

Ive had both scenarios

 

[freddo]

EDF are useless to the max. Every time we deal with them they turn a 10 minute job into a song and dance. Thank goodness they don't have to carry out any challenging work, nothing would get done. They love making any excuse not to do the work when they turn up on site too.

No complaints with WPD, they are great to work with.

 

[happysteve]

EDF are useless to the max. Every time we deal with them they turn a 10 minute job into a song and dance. Thank goodness they don't have to carry out any challenging work, nothing would get done. They love making any excuse not to do the work when they turn up on site too.

No complaints with WPD, they are great to work with.

Agree about WPD. No probs there whatsoever. Pragmatic, quick when they really need to be. Expensive for simple tasks, but I guess they'd rather be working with bigger stuff and fixing bigger problems, so they price accordingly.

Good info about EDF, thanks.

 

[davesparks]

EDF have always been a nightmare for this sort of thing. They used to be the DNO around here before UKPN took over (who aren't much better either)

I once had an EDF guy refuse to move a meter because there there wasn't an EIC on a job where the whole installation had been stripped out and there wasn't anything left to certify.
I ended up fitting a 2way CU and a couple of sockets on a bit of wood and certifying that so that they could then disconnect it and move the meter

 

[James]

EDF have always been a nightmare for this sort of thing. They used to be the DNO around here before UKPN took over (who aren't much better either)

I once had an EDF guy refuse to move a meter because there there wasn't an EIC on a job where the whole installation had been stripped out and there wasn't anything left to certify.
I ended up fitting a 2way CU and a couple of sockets on a bit of wood and certifying that so that they could then disconnect it and move the meter

I have had something similar,
produced a report that was almost all N/a in the boxes, listing no circuits but was signed as satisfactory as in my humble opinion there was no danger from any of the installation.

I had cut every outgoing circuit from the main DB.

 

[MJPD29]

Always worth remembering that meter fitters are untrained and have almost zero electrical knowledge. They go by what their job sheet and tick box exercise says, connecting a cable could cause a blind panic and lead to 6 months off with stress for them.

 

[happysteve]

I'm gonna give them 3/10 for effort. They did re-connect the client's power, but... well. See for yourself.

It's a very cramped meter cabinet in the service area of a block of flats. As well as the client's meter, there's also a meter for the flat amenities DB next to it. Client is on old-style Economy 7: meter has 2 line outputs, one for the 24 hour DB serving lights + sockets (DB1), the second line output serving DB2 which has old-school storage heaters: no timers, just local 20A DP switches on 16A radials, they rely on only having power when it's cheap. DB2 is a PVC consumer unit with RCD main switch - it's fine. DB1 is an old Wylex fuse box - will be replaced by an RCBO DB.

There's no space to install a 4-pole isolator, but we only need a 2-pole isolator, for DB1. This is what they installed:

Here's the schematic:

I'll post what's wrong (and why) when I get back from Tesco's... if anyone (including trainees) wants to have a look and work out (a) what's wrong, and (b) why it's either potentially dangerous, or means that things won't work as intended, then comment away! I'll post later what the outcome was.

Cheers!

 

[happysteve]

Always worth remembering that meter fitters are untrained and have almost zero electrical knowledge. They go by what their job sheet and tick box exercise says, connecting a cable could cause a blind panic and lead to 6 months off with stress for them.

In retrospect, your synopsis was bang on the money

 

[timhoward]

Oh my word. I feel a strange mixture of incredulity at the basic conceptual errors and and rage that people are allowed paid to do work like this under the umbrella's of large organisations without adequate training.
And a mix of feelings that it is so dangerous that a complaint is warranted, along with resignation that nothing would happen.

 

[nicebutdim]

Bit ropey having both live supplies commoned through that connector, with only 24hr supply isolated.

Less than ideal if storage heaters/ off peak water heating rely on off peak supply for timing.

Return visit from meter fitter or timer for off peak board?

 

[timhoward]

@nicebutdim look at the situation if the isolator were off/open, and consider the situation when the off-peak supply is live....

 

[happysteve]

My particular favourite is this scenario:

• isolator off
• off-peak goes live
• loads are connected to off-peak DB (DB2)
• neutral (on DB2 and DB1) is disconnected from source N by isolator so...
• Neutrals, on DB1 and DB2, including N bus bars, go to 230V
• L to N (on both DBs) tests as 0V (although L-E and N-E will read 230V)
• DB2 looks dead, but isn't
• DB1 looks dead, and the intention of turning it off at the isolator is that is should be dead, but isn't
• The RCD(s) won't save you either, as they're further downstream (on outgoing circuits)

 

[happysteve]

Here's the outcome:

... and schematic.

Yes, I did put blanks in the L Henley block.

Just need to get EDF back to check the tightness of the outgoing N on the meter (did not break the seal) - tried hard not to twist/disturb the outgoing cable, but may have done. Flat unoccupied so no load on it at the moment.

sigh

 

[nicebutdim]

@nicebutdim look at the situation if the isolator were off/open, and consider the situation when the off-peak supply is live....

That's the point made in my first sentence.

Open isolator and off peak supply still makes the whole installation live.

 

[timhoward]

That's the point made in my first sentence.

Open isolator and off peak supply still makes the whole installation live.

Apologies, I read it too quick and thought you'd missed it. My bad!

 

[nicebutdim]

Apologies, I read it too quick and thought you'd missed it. My bad!

To be fair, having read it again, I might have typed it to quickly.

Obviously everyone should know what I'm thinking when typing shorthand

 

[BenCos18]

Cheers!

Is it just me misreading it or does that henley block have two feeds to it...
It looks like it's connected to both the meter directly and to the isolator switch...wth

 

[BenCos18]

And now I notice the second page after I reply haha

 

[happysteve]

From the website of the company subcontracted to do the work...: