PUB GARDEN ELECTROCUTION TRIAL

[westward10]

It does but it is permitted to calculate the csa of your earthing conductor so a smaller size could be acceptable. Obviously if the conductor has to support the main protective bonding then it's csa must be adequate to support the bonding.
See Regulation 543.1.1

 

[Raptor0014]

It does but it is permitted to calculate the csa of your earthing conductor so a smaller size could be acceptable. Obviously if the conductor has to support the main protective bonding then it's csa must be adequate to support the bonding.
See Regulation 543.1.1

Was just reading that and wondered wether or not I’d been told wrong. It states above the table the DNO may require a larger size than is stated.

Like I said I am happy to be corrected and am only going off what I was taught, tested on and what the OSG says.

 

[westward10]

Was just reading that and wondered wether or not I’d been told wrong. It states above the table the DNO may require a larger size than is stated.

Like I said I am happy to be corrected and am only going off what I was taught, tested on and what the OSG says.

Be interesting if you installed a 10.0 earthing conductor when the OSG recommends 16.0 on an assessment and you can prove by calculation it is adequate. You haven't necessarily been told wrong as following the suggested sizes in the Table you can't really go wrong, I myself just follow the Table?

 

[Darkwood]

@Raptor0014

I get what you were saying but one sentence you put is why I replied, you find it difficult to understand why an electrician wouldn't be in a scheme.
I can understand an odd job man not being registered. But not an electrician

The schemes out there are just a way for people to set up companies and make money out of electricians, there is no legal requirement to be in one and you can certify your own work, it is no coincidence that these schemes were originally initiated by government and that many business, state bodies and insurance firms will require you employ an electrician who is part of one of these schemes.
There are however thousands of electricians that do not go into jobs where they require you to be a member of such bodies, at most my clients will ensure I have fully insurance and request copies for verification, many electricians who do domestic can choose to not be a member of a scheme, however due to part P and local councils it makes it difficult but not impossible to do so without be a member, again the full circle of siphoning money out of electricians or a tax if you want for a better word.

You actually can argue the case that you will sign off your own work, have full insurance like PL etc and will stand by your experience and good name to do so, I do not think although I will stand corrected that a company can demand you are part of one, they can only request, discrimination cases have been won on local councils in the past for stating a certain body only and not others or independent representation.

I have no issue with anyone wanting to use a scheme because it definitely has its advantages especially if you work in and around council and government buildings, it also makes any legal challenges and cases against you weaker if applied falsely, not been in a scheme to start with can mean a bigger and harder legal challenge if you are ever in that situe'.

I would happenly legally challenge any council that tried to force me to pay for some random jobsworth I could run rings around to satisfy their notification requirements, in fact I strongly believe that notification should be a must for all and free and local councils 'not trade bodies' would randomly inspect your work a few times a year, the powers to fine heavily and strike you off will be the deterrent for any dodgy cowboy. I would even happily pay a small fee to this set up and get rid of all these existing schemes that are now just treating us like cashcows.

Note here - randomly check your work is key to ridding cowboys, there are loads of firms in schemes that do a few decent jobs a year to take the inspectors to then bodge the rest with less than satisfactory standards... now that is why schemes are useless.

 

[Raptor0014]

Accepted I could have worded that better. Showing my lack of experience.

The few electricians round my way I’ve spoken to who aren’t is purely because they don’t want to pay to be assessed.

I fully agree a random inspection would be a better way. I loathe having to pay over £500 to prove I’m competent. Especially as I’ve been assessed on pretty much the same thing I was assessed on during the course.

But as I’m newly starting I thought it best to be in a scheme than not if I want to get work. Shows to any potential clients I’m not a cowboy with some YouTube quals.

 

[brianmoooore]

Resurrecting an old thread, but this case is the subject of "Defenders UK" on BBC1 at the moment.
Showing pics of the pub's electrics, worthy of starring in the Dodgy trade pictures thread on here.

 

[Midwest]

Resurrecting an old thread, but this case is the subject of "Defenders UK" on BBC1 at the moment.
Showing pics of the pub's electrics, worthy of starring in the Dodgy trade pictures thread on here.

Wouldn’t mind watching that, could you give details, so I can watch on iPlayer?

 

[brianmoooore]

Defenders UK is the full name of the series. 10.00 - 10.45 AM, BBC1 today.
It's one of those investigative programs that deals with about four or five different cases per episode, switching between them throughout the 45 minute program.

 

[snowhead]

Defenders UK - Series 5: Episode 6

Investigators are called in when a seven-year-old boy suffers a fatal electric shock.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[littlespark]

Still available on skyQ catch up section. Downloading it now. I’m sure it will still be on iPlayer as well.

 

[Julie.]

Still available on skyQ catch up section. Downloading it now. I’m sure it will still be on iPlayer as well.

It is on iplayer, I watched it earlier today.

80% is emotional about the loss (justifiably so), there is actually very little about the actual fault/cause - although the photos of the installation are pretty bad.

 

[Midwest]

Yes, when I said I would be interested in watching it, that wasn't trivialising the great loss for the family. Tragic loss.

 

[marconi]

Pub owner jailed over boy's electrocution death 28 May 2021 - Article from Forbes Solicitors - https://www.forbessolicitors.co.uk/news/47618/pub-owner-jailed-over-boys-electrocution-death

 

[mainline]

David slavery did a bit on this a while ago.

 

[Intoelectrics]

This is why cowboys should be routed out and prosecuted more often!!!

 

[benhurr]

was it 9 years prison for pub owner and only 1y to electrician ? or have I missed something? shouldn't it be the other way around? unless the pub owner deliberately insisted not to wire correctly to save money?

 

[snowhead]

The pub owner was ultimately responsible for the property and it's condition and could have done more over the years he owned it to ensure it was safe.

 

[marconi]

was it 9 years prison for pub owner and only 1y to electrician ? or have I missed something? shouldn't it be the other way around? unless the pub owner deliberately insisted not to wire correctly to save money?

Sentences as you state. The more culpable in law was the duty holder who was the landlord and owner. He failed to discharge his duties as required by shef law even though he knew what was required. The last link I sent says more.

 

[Julie.]

was it 9 years prison for pub owner and only 1y to electrician ? or have I missed something? shouldn't it be the other way around? unless the pub owner deliberately insisted not to wire correctly to save money?

In detail, the electrician run cables and so on but stated it was not ready for final connection.

The pub landlord decided to make the connections himself.

Plus as said above, the landlord was the duty holder.

The details are quite involved, but it is my understanding that the electrician did limited work, but the landlord had either done most of the work himself, or by others resulting in the overall mess you see in the photos.

The electrician was held accountable for 'not highlighting the overall situation ' rather than for his direct work (which is arguably correct as if we believe he only did first fix , he can't be at fault for further work done after leaving site).

The landlord admitted that he made the Connections I believe.

 

[timhoward]

The electrician was held accountable for 'not highlighting the overall situation '

...presumably to the local authority environmental health dept, as HSE don't get involved with pubs.

Is HSE the correct enforcing authority for you?

Authority - the type of workplaces HSE is responsible for and those where Local Authorities have responsibility.

www.hse.gov.uk