Query over new circuit installation for Boiler, and Bonding question

[steviec_lj]

Hi folks,

Please do excuse me if this is in the wrong area, it covers a couple of topics so I thought it would be best to pop it in here.

A little over 2 weeks ago, we had a brand spanking new heating system installed, and I cannot fault the lads that came and did it. Everything was tidied up, they moved whatever they needed to, etc, etc. Unfortunately the same couldn't be said for the electricians that eventually came out and connected the
boiler, motorised valves and room stats up. If there were a rogues gallery, I could post a number of pictures up.

The main issues that I currently for see, is the bonding arrangement that they have installed. The main bonding for the water main seems satisfactory, and is connected after the stopcock, within 600mm of where the main enters the building. The have piggybacked from this, through the wall to the oil pipe, to a point on the oil pipe that is some 4mtrs away from where it enters the building and 2mtrs from an external stop tap. They have added bonding to all other pipe work near the boiler (Zone 1 feed, Zone 2 feed, Return, DHW and Mains Cold), externally they've added bonding to the pipe work either side of the metal de-aerater but not the filter, and from what I can tell, this renders the bonding useless?

The other issue that was brought to my attention this morning, when the envelope hit the mat, was that they appear to have done some testing of the circuit that they installed, and the bonding. Without actually testing it to the best of my knowledge. I wonder if anyone would be able to enlighten me as to how this would be possible, or alternatively, possibly linking to an image of the equipment used to test Earth Fault Loop Impedance, RCD operating times and Insulation Resistance.

I won't include any images at the moment, as I should really take their names off of a couple of them before I post them up. But I do believe I will be contacting NICEIC about the work that they have done, and also notifying the Plumbing company of their work.

Any advice, or tips on dealing with something like this would be great.

Steve

 

[GLENNSPARK]

so...
any installation certificate with this?
together with its schedule of inspections & schedule of test/s?

 

[steviec_lj]

Sorry, forgot that.

Received through the post this morning was a, Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate. Which, having just read the top of the piece of paper, quite clearly states, To be used only for minor electrical work which does not include the provision of a new circuit.

This is all that has been received from the electricians.

 

[Plonker 3]

So have they merely come off a existing circuit or have they installed a dedicated circuit from your DB?

 

[steviec_lj]

They have installed a new dedicated circuit for the boiler. Copy of the paperwork is uploading now.

 

[steviec_lj]

Paperwork, received this morning.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

............

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well...from what i can see it looks OK..

- - - Updated - - -

but as #4

 

[GLENNSPARK]

dont assume the limitations box means they havn`t done any testing.....

 

[Rampantchilli]

Your first step, now you've done your Internet research, is to call the electrician and ask him to come back. He must be given the chance to correct anything that is wrong, although what's wrong may not match your own thoughts.

If you consider that he hasn't carried out testing ask him to retest in your presence, the test readings will be substantially the same, but remember, to the best of your knowledge they haven't tested, but then you don't know what a tester looks like so you may have missed it happening.

as for the bonding, we can't comment on it as we haven't seen it, and the electrician on site has made a judgement call, he has done supplementary bonding across the pipe work and main bonded to the oil supply, so on paper sounds good and maybe correct or may not without us visiting and looking for ourselves we can't say.

if you contact the NICEIC they will advise you to talk to the electrician first.

 

[Sharpend]

Have you any pictures of this external bonding?

as for testing they would of had to use between 1-3 testers depending upon which type they had.

 

[steviec_lj]

Surely testers are required to produce such results though? None of which were brought in to the property in the entire 6 hours it took them to install the circuit.

#4 = Its a new, dedicated circuit. Meaning that this certificate is invalid surely?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Surely testers are required to produce such results though? None of which were brought in to the property in the entire 6 hours it took them to install the circuit.

#4 = Its a new, dedicated circuit. Meaning that this certificate is invalid surely?

did you see them filling out the certificate for an electrical installation...?
some testers now store results to be filled out on a laptop...or PC...
as i notice they are all printed values (as opposed to hand written)...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

see i have to be careful now before condemning anyones work/certs they have issued....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

the figures look OK...
according to the cert dielectric strength testing has been carried out, disconnection times for MCBs to BSEN60898 have been met and the CSA of cable used is adequate for the load...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

further more you have chosen to sensor the name and address of the person/company responsible for the work...
this suggests to me that you have been given such details?

 

[steviec_lj]

Image #1: Shows external oil stop tap, bonding appearing through the wall, which connects the mains water to the oil.

Image #2: Shows a little more of the route of the oil feed, to where the rest of the kit has been mounted.

Image #3: Shows the bonding arrangement on the external parts of the boiler system. Top left is the de-aerator, down and round into the filter, and finally at the bottom is a fire valve.

 

[steviec_lj]

Yes, I have the installer details here to hand. I chose to sensor them out of courtesy I suppose, plus I thought it would be a good idea to get a little advice before calling the company back.

To the best of my knowledge, and I was sat in all day while they installed it, there was no testing equipment used, all existing circuits in the property remained live while they installed the boiler circuit. At no point were any RCD tests carried out, the boiler circuit is not connected to the RCD Protected Circuits side of the CU.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

if what concerns you is the extending (or daisychaining) of the bonding conductor from one service to the next....
then its not an issue....as long as the Max. measured value does not go above 0.05 ohm measured from the furthest point (as for any radial)...
the only thing i would perhaps say is if the bonding conductor wasn`t continuous .....that is to say it was cut at each point served...
but as long as good continuity was acheaved....i`d give it a 3 at worst...

 

[Rampantchilli]

Somehow my reply got lost!
so here goes.

The certificate is incorrect for a newly installed circuit, and also new main protective earthing.
the fact it has not been supplementary bonded across the fire valve and filter may be because it doesn't need doing, which is genuinely possible if there is negligible resistance across them.

as for the testing, well as you are sure it hasn't been tested then I'd suggest a phone call to them first, they may be able to provide some proof or come back and show you the tests again.
If after this you still aren't happy then ask a member here to come round, at your cost, to check the work and validate the results on the minow works, if they can be proved to be wrong then a condition report limited to just that circuit could be issued and then you'd have the evidence you need to take this further, if in deed that's what you want to do.

my only concern now, is that the cert says the circuit is Rcd protected yet you state it is on the non Rcd side of the board, which suggests a failure on the part of the electrician