Discuss Sole traders/small firms and the MCS in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I have a full time job in industrial but i also do a small amount of domestic work (mainly periodic testing) on the side.
I would like to do a project on my own house where i fit a PV and battery system.
I am a member of NAPIT so i thought it would be fairly simple.

First thing i found out are that there are a lot ow working parts to registering with the MCS.

Second thing is that it will cost around £1500 a year

and lastly it appears as though you need a structural engineer to assess the weight carrying capability of the structure.
So my question is. Is this correct for every single installation even small scale domestic jobs ?

If so then i think this is a shame as it means only the big boys can do this work as all the requirements effectively mean you can not get into this sub section of the industry unless you intend on doing a large number of PV installs.
If so its a real shame as i think small retro-fitted domestic systems would not be of much interest to medium and large firms whilst being of great interest to smaller outfits.

I would be interested to hear from and small firms or sole traders that have ventured into this field. especially regarding how they satisfy the structural survey requirements.

Regards

Ed
 
In my opinion, one of the reasons the MCS was introduced to put in a serious roadblock for small companies. It was given free reign to police the whole industry, and instead of coming up with a practical way of advancing technology, training installers, supporting them and monitoring quality levels it introduced some world class bureaucracy and levels of paperwork the like of which is rarely seen in any other arena, and which is in my experience mostly ineffective. If you think joining a CPS is bad, the MCS is far worse.

As you mentioned, the cost of joining the scheme for smaller outfits is very high. You then need to find new insurance to cover solar installations (PITA, I finally found full cover from kingsbridge.co.uk), fork out for a QMS as there are well over a hundred documents to maintain, join a consumer code of conduct (actually not a bad thing, I have found HIES to be very helpful and sensible but the RECC to be very slow), sort out deposit protection insurance, guarantee insurance and dozens of other jobs that just eat away at the time you could be spent doing something productive.

On smaller installations, I get the feeling a similar amount of time will be spent in the office complying with MCS guff than will be spent on site. And on every job, there will be significant cost implications for the customer to cover all the time and money spent behind the scenes.

The structural survey requirements have always seemed a bit vague to me. Some installers ignore them, some carry them out on every job. If I have any doubt I have one carried out, for smaller domestic jobs you can have the survey done remotely (desktop survey) using photographs and measurements. Structural Reports for PV Arrays - KB2 Consulting Civil and Structural Engineers - http://www.kb-2.co.uk/portfolio-items/structural-reports-for-pv-arrays/ is one example of a company who offer them. In roof arrays are a bit different, as quite often there is an overall mass reduction compared to the covering, which to my knowledge is generally fine. I specify these whenever possible now, as the majority of issues I have seen with on roof PV over the years have been water in connectors (IR issues) and mounting issues (leak time). And as some are finding out, they make a great spot for pigeon nests!

So yes, I think the MCS is definitely in place to keep the little guys out and make life easy for the big companies. The costs are insignificant for a large company, and you only need to train one person. This should be a technology that any competent electrician can install when working alongside a roofing firm. The MCS claimed recently that they were making the joining process easier for small outfits, but I have not seen this.

There is a scheme I came across called Flexi Orb, and they seem to be thinking along the same lines, and are setting up as a competitor to the MCS. Right now, 6 electricity providers accept Flexi Orb installations for the SEG. I will be joining them. Joining the scheme is free, and they are currently undergoing UKAS certification to prove themselves (to my knowledge, the MCS are not UKAS certified, they just require everyone else to be...). Once they are fully set up, there will be a notification fee for every job, but that looks to be it.

They are also linked with another scheme, EVPS, that offers independent verification of performance estimates to customers, and will help them in the event that the system does not perform as claimed. This is something the MCS should have been offering since they started.



My recommendation:

If you want to install on your own property, I would do so. If you haven't installed PV before, have a design carried out for you or take the training course, and work alongside a roofer on the day you install the PV array. Treat yourself to a full scaffold! Get a remote structural survey to confirm things, for your own peace of mind and as due diligence. Notify the new electrical circuit as normal, and your house insurers of the addition - they are the ones who may ask you to have the LABC around to check the system. With your survey in hand, photos of the install and the electrical system signed off by a CPS member, there isn't much more the LABC can ask for. The only thing you would lose out on is the SEG, but at 5p/kWh odd it is hardly worth it, especially if you have a decent battery system.



My experience:

I am currently in the process of joining the MCS, as it is a necessary thing to do in order for my clients heat pump installations to be eligible for the RHI and any future incentives. Whilst these incentive systems can be good for the customer (kind of), they have the effect of inflating prices and encouraging unscrupulous installers to mis sell systems, fudging numbers to make the payback figures look good whilst the customer ends up with a system that was never designed correctly for them or their property. Hence the incentives being "kind of" good for the customers - they should end up with their money back, but it might not be smooth sailing. Heat pumps are great bits of kit, but like any technology, not safe against crap installers.

The same thing happened with the FIT for solar, incredible levels of mis selling led to all sorts of problems in the future, one of the biggest being renewables getting tarred and feathered as a load of rubbish. Back around 2011, I was working with a company I trusted installing PV on domestic and commercial projects - I met the director during my electrical engineering degree and knew he was an engineer first and a salesman second. We were competing against companies who were making all sorts of rubbish up, and one that stuck in my head was an elderly widower being talked in to a system by a company who told her that it would generate enough electricity at night from the moon, even through cloud, to power her house. We lost that job because of this, and tried to explain to her that the claims made by the other company were just not true, but she was convinced by the suit who sold her the system.

This is where my respect for the MCS vanished - we complained to them about this incident, and they completely shut us down. Not interested. Since then, I have heard of countless stories the same.

As I am going through the pain of joining the MCS for heat pumps, I though why not add solar PV as well and get it done with. Generally these days when I install solar the clients are not interested in the MCS scheme, or the system is off grid. If I do need to produce an MCS cert, I carry out the install through an MCS umbrella wholesaler. I spoke to an MCS assessor about competencies, and explained that I had been installing solar PV and thermal since 2001, and provided a list of my qualifications and the name of a referee who could validate my experience. Two decades of experience, two engineering degrees, a wedge of electrical trade qualifications and many jobs under my belt - the verdict? Insufficient experience. You need to do a 3-day course. On principle, I politely declined.
 

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