Washing Machine in Bathroom

[Outspoken]

I think all unexplained fires shoud be blamed on plumbers.

I reckon that all flooding should be down to Plumbers...and as such all plumbers should carry £10 Billion Public Liability Insurance...

 

[Engineer54]

I've given you more than enough reasons why your combined table, sourced from all over the place is totally meaningless, if you can't understand why those reasons negate any comparison being possible, that's your problem not mine!!

Exactly what are you trying prove by your table anyway?? It certainly has nothing to do with installing protected bathroom socket outlets, unless your trying to imply your sourced data can be used as a direct indication of such installations??

Well you ARE taking the data wrongly, what the hell has this UK data got to do with electrical bathroom deaths?? What mathematical formula norms are you talking about?? Has not the UK data been based on actual collated recorded data, or is it all based on some statistical formula??

Maybe those where the fire brigade arbitrary designate an unknown cause of fire, as electrical?? ..very scientific that, but nothing to do with mathematical norms!! It's called institutional form filling Bullsh1te!!

 

[spark 68]

.
Governments pass all kinds of legislation all the time based on poor or no real evidence in all spheres from health to education to social policy. Interesting that NZ have repealled their Part p. Didn't know that. I wonder what they based that on?

I believe they repealed their version of part P because people started using extension leads everywhere to circumvent the law, and this apparently caused accidents in the home to sky rocket due to fires and trip and falls etc.. and so had the opposite effect of what was desired lol :yes:

Common sense from a government !, shock horror lol.

 

[Outspoken]

I've given you more than enough reasons why your combined table, sourced from all over the place is totally meaningless, if you can't understand why those reasons negate any comparison being possible, that's your problem not mine!!

Exactly what are you trying prove by your table anyway?? It certainly has nothing to do with installing protected bathroom socket outlets, unless your trying to imply your sourced data can be used as a direct indication of such installations??

Well you ARE taking the data wrongly, what the hell has this UK data got to do with electrical bathroom deaths?? What mathematical formula norms are you talking about?? Has not the UK data been based on actual collated recorded data, or is it all based on some statistical formula??

Maybe those where the fire brigade arbitrary designate an unknown cause of fire, as electrical?? ..very scientific that, but nothing to do with mathematical norms!! It's called institutional form filling Bullsh1te!!

WTF are you talking about, that is total nonsense

 

[Engineer54]

WTF are you talking about, that is total nonsense

Oh, I beg to differ, .... it's you that has been talking utter nonsense!! lol!!

 

[Outspoken]

Oh, I beg to differ, .... it's you that has been talking utter nonsense!! lol!!

Chap, I suggest you stick to Chinese because clearly English presents difficulties for you.

Oh..why the hell do you add LOL to most of your sentences, are you some spotty faced teenager who thinks everything he says is funny....because it's not..LOL

 

[Engineer54]

Ah, the need to get personal now is it!! lol!!

I really shouldn't have ever replied to that Table of yours, ...save to say that it was totally meaningless, irrelevant to the thread and to try again!!


Oh, ...Why do i always use lol?? Because it seems to annoy ''YOU'' so much!! wait for it, .....lol!!

 

[Outspoken]

E54, I really don't care and I am only having a wind up, it's not personal and won't be. You think what you do and I think what i do, we are not agreeing because we are looking at this from different angles...it's not the end of the world and I certainly am not going to get into a spat over it...the devil in me was wondering how you would reply and how many LOL's you would add to your post.. LOL

 

[Stroppy]

The Lol!! thing annoys me, too, as you may have noticed! Do you do it in real life? "Hello my name's E54 HAHAHAHA! I've come to look at your electrics. HAHAHAHA!" (etc)

Edit: Lol!!

 

[telectrix]

well he's in china so perhaps it should be ROL. bit like the chinese guy in lethal weapon 4, who when mel gibson says flied lice, he relpies it's fried rice, you plick.

 

[amlu]

common practice to have it in the bathroom in continental Europe. seen that in Poland, Germany and France. Works in Japan too. Normally used with a waterproof socket behind the machine. Its a class 1 metal box, when properly earthed and protected should not be a problem. uk regs may see it different but there is many interpretations of the regs ;-)

 

[oldtimer]

what about just good practice

 

[Engineer54]

E54, I really don't care and I am only having a wind up, it's not personal and won't be. You think what you do and I think what i do, we are not agreeing because we are looking at this from different angles...it's not the end of the world and I certainly am not going to get into a spat over it...the devil in me was wondering how you would reply and how many LOL's you would add to your post.. LOL

That's fair enough!! lol!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well. first impressions...... don't uprate that fuse. it's probably protecting a 2.5mm cable ( radial ) and should stay at 15A. was the circuit originally for an immersion heater? i would seriously consider an alternative location for the washing machine, or buy one of these.

amazing what you find when you googledolly tub

oh,..so you`v had a go on genes reunited then Tel...

 

[tazz]

Find this strange...in the uk we allow 8kw showers right in the prime zone, we have 2kw hand dryers on 13a fused spurs, and we say yes but its protected by and rcd....reminds me of 15th edition...lets bond all aluminimum windows...lets bond all radiators, I think the type of installation is important here in relation to the oulet and protection used and the sizing of safe areas.

 

[Outspoken]

OK, well as I have said I do not touch domestic work, so any Regs that touch on this, unless they have spill over into what I do I have largely ignored as I have enough to worry about..

Interestingly in 701.413 (ii) it does indicate that a single socket outlet may be used as it appears under the title of Protective Measure: Electrical Separation

However with regards to washing machines and white good I would direct peoples attention to Reg 701.55 (iv - Xi) where it lists the types of fixed and permanently connected equipment that is currently allowed within Zone 1 for a room containing a fixed bath or shower, and white goods are not listed.

Thus as it stands, regardless of the rights/wrongs of installing a socket in a bathroom, RCD protected or not, it would be a serious deviation from the Regs to install a washing machine in the Bathroom.

Now if someone would like to challenge this interpretation by all means do.

 

[Engineer54]

Find this strange...in the uk we allow 8kw showers right in the prime zone, we have 2kw hand dryers on 13a fused spurs, and we say yes but its protected by and rcd....reminds me of 15th edition...lets bond all aluminimum windows...lets bond all radiators, I think the type of installation is important here in relation to the oulet and protection used and the sizing of safe areas.

Make that 10.8KW+ Showers!!

 

[Dubbo]

OK, well as I have said I do not touch domestic work, so any Regs that touch on this, unless they have spill over into what I do I have largely ignored as I have enough to worry about..

Interestingly in 701.413 (ii) it does indicate that a single socket outlet may be used as it appears under the title of Protective Measure: Electrical Separation

However with regards to washing machines and white good I would direct peoples attention to Reg 701.55 (iv - Xi) where it lists the types of fixed and permanently connected equipment that is currently allowed within Zone 1 for a room containing a fixed bath or shower, and white goods are not listed.

Thus as it stands, regardless of the rights/wrongs of installing a socket in a bathroom, RCD protected or not, it would be a serious deviation from the Regs to install a washing machine in the Bathroom.

Now if someone would like to challenge this interpretation by all means do.

First of all Hello I'm new to the for forum I am with the NICEIC as a domestic installer
You would find it very hard to fit a washing machine in zone 1 as this directly over the bath or shower , so if fitted in a bathroom it would be in zone 2 or outside the zones, you can according to guidance notes 7 page 23 fit a washing machine in zone 2 if it is IPX4 as per paragraph below

1.9 Other equipment, e.g. home laundry equipment
Current-using equipment such as washing machines and tumble-driers is permitted within zone 2 if it has a minimum degree of protection of IPX4 (if subject to water jets – at least IPX5 is required) and in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. Such equipment must be supplied by means of a permanent connection unit located outside zone 2. Beyond 3 m horizontally from the boundary of zone 1 the equipment may be supplied by means of a plug and socket.

 

[Outspoken]

First of all Hello I'm new to the for forum I am with the NICEIC as a domestic installer
You would find it very hard to fit a washing machine in zone 1 as this directly over the bath or shower , so if fitted in a bathroom it would be in zone 2 or outside the zones, you can according to guidance notes 7 page 23 fit a washing machine in zone 2 if it is IPX4 as per paragraph below

1.9 Other equipment, e.g. home laundry equipment
Current-using equipment such as washing machines and tumble-driers is permitted within zone 2 if it has a minimum degree of protection of IPX4 (if subject to water jets – at least IPX5 is required) and in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. Such equipment must be supplied by means of a permanent connection unit located outside zone 2. Beyond 3 m horizontally from the boundary of zone 1 the equipment may be supplied by means of a plug and socket.

Perhaps you might like to check your zones because they are not just directly above. No white goods are so water resistant as to be permissible in Zone 1. I would agree that zone 2 may be acceptable but you need to take into account the degradation of the exterior of the machine caused by steam and condensation, washing machines and tumble dryers are not designed with this in mind, they are meant to have the moisture/water inside them not outside.

 

[Dubbo]

Perhaps you might like to check your zones because they are not just directly above. No white goods are so water resistant as to be permissible in Zone 1. I would agree that zone 2 may be acceptable but you need to take into account the degradation of the exterior of the machine caused by steam and condensation, washing machines and tumble dryers are not designed with this in mind, they are meant to have the moisture/water inside them not outside.

Checked my zones and with acceptations of wet rooms.I would love to Know where is physically possible to put a washing machine in most bathrooms in zone1 and still take a bath or shower?. I never said zone1 was ok, you don't have to agree with me about zone2 I quoted the regs. The First question in this thread stated the washing machine is IPX4 so can go in zone2 degradation or not, its not what you would do but the regs say you can do it.

 

[oldtimer]

Most bathrooms are 2.5 x 2.5 metres but I have been in a bathroom that is bigger than most peoples livingroom ie 4 x 4 metres

Also when is this post going to stop lol

 

[Geordie Spark]

Most bathrooms are 2.5 x 2.5 metres but I have been in a bathroom that is bigger than most peoples livingroom ie 4 x 4 metres

Also when is this post going to stop lol

Average White Band - Let's Go Round Again (1980) - YouTube

Chuck Berry - Around And Around - YouTube

 

[ackbarthestar]

Most bathrooms are 2.5 x 2.5 metres but I have been in a bathroom that is bigger than most peoples livingroom ie 4 x 4 metres

Also when is this post going to stop lol

Unlikely as it is a never ending saga, the zone changes seem to be on a regular basis.

 

[Outspoken]

Checked my zones and with acceptations of wet rooms.I would love to Know where is physically possible to put a washing machine in most bathrooms in zone1 and still take a bath or shower?. I never said zone1 was ok, you don't have to agree with me about zone2 I quoted the regs. The First question in this thread stated the washing machine is IPX4 so can go in zone2 degradation or not, its not what you would do but the regs say you can do it.

That is the whole point and why my original reply was a categorical no...the only homes that have bathrooms big enough for the kit to not be in zone 1 are likely to have kitchens or utility rooms big enough for the stuff in the first place, so it becomes a moot point.

If the washing machine is IPX4 rated, would love to see the details as I have never heard of one and an internet search throws up nothing, The socket outlet or fused spur should be 3m from the bath and to be rated to IP54 minimum.



Now you would be some kind of mug to put a washing machine within 600mm of a bath and so your not exactly left a lot of room here...by the way, if you think a washing machine chassis will not rot in the damp environs of a bath/shower room..good luck with that.

 

[tazz]

At Last The New washing Machine By Hoover

Its IP Rated, Its Space Saving,
And fits in the smallest of Bathrooms.
Order Yours today....!!!

 

[oldtimer]

So lets get this right you have managed to fit the washing machine on wall brackets above the bath and you are bathing the kids and its going through its final spin then one of the brackets give way .

Like I said in a 4 x4 bathroom ok but in the standard 2.5 x 2.5 semi detached bathroom forget it

 

[Adam W]

If I lived in a flat with an open plan kitchen/lounge I wouldn't want the washing machine running when I was trying to watch telly; I'd want it somewhere else, behind a closed door, like in the bathroom.

 

[Dubbo]

That is the whole point and why my original reply was a categorical no...the only homes that have bathrooms big enough for the kit to not be in zone 1 are likely to have kitchens or utility rooms big enough for the stuff in the first place, so it becomes a moot point.

If the washing machine is IPX4 rated, would love to see the details as I have never heard of one and an internet search throws up nothing, The socket outlet or fused spur should be 3m from the bath and to be rated to IP54 minimum.

View attachment 18802 View attachment 18803

Now you would be some kind of mug to put a washing machine within 600mm of a bath and so your not exactly left a lot of room here...by the way, if you think a washing machine chassis will not rot in the damp environs of a bath/shower room..good luck with that.

Most washers are IPX4, to save you the bother of looking I will upload picture of the label off mine, you need to look at your regs book the zones you are looking at don't come from BS7671 2011
to go back to your first quote you talk about zone1, you can not fit a washer in if you wanted to so why where you looking in the regs at zone1 your quote of the regs. But if you want to be a mug and put it within 600mm of a bath you can in the regs, so it would not be a serious deviation from the regs as you stated because they say you can. would I no but that was not the question

 

[oldtimer]

Its all about risk what is the risk with the washing machine in the bathroom or no risk at all

 

[Guest55]

FFS , i'm away from the forum for just 5 minutes and you all end with your heads up your arses over a simple thing like a wash machine in bathroom lol ;-)
i'd hate to see you deal with a real crisis
its very feasable for it to be in there regardless if you think its a lousy idea , just needs some creative thinking lol.

 

[Engineer54]

Regardless of what any of us think, if a homeowner or tenant wants a washing machine in a bathroom, that's where it's going to go!! Far better to have a 10mA protected socket in bathrooms, than the usual extension lead brought in from the nearest socket to the bathroom. It's done in just about every western country, and absolutely no reason why it can't be the same in the UK!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

FFS , i'm away from the forum for just 5 minutes and you all end with your heads up your arses over a simple thing like a wash machine in bathroom lol ;-)
i'd hate to see you deal with a real crisis
its very feasable for it to be in there regardless if you think its a lousy idea , just needs some creative thinking lol.

I find that hurts my head, so I use an extension lead instead.

 

[richardg]

M
V
Be

 

[specs]

Barry wonders

 

[Admin]

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