UK What are my next steps?

[As1999]

Hi,

I have passed my level 3 btec electrical installations recently. I will be looking to start my nvq 3 when I can find a job in the electrical industry. What am I even classed as? Qualified, electrical labourer etc?

I’m not really sure what I’m classed as to start looking for jobs. The college is pretty useless too.

Any help? Thank you

 

[Aaron b]

I have a city and guild in electrical installation and a btec in electrical engineering. I didn't realise edexel/btec were doing installation courses, I always thought they were more academically biased.

Was it a two-year course? I assume they are all equivalent (like EAL) you might just have to tell employers the equivalent C&G course numbers as it might not be immediately evident how it compares.

I assume you would be an apprentice. I wouldn't be afraid of stating your level and knowledge and applying for electrician jobs, if they are expanding you might have a good chance of being considered.

 

[swaRRR]

What on-site experience do you have? If it's none you're going to be considered an electrical labourer or 'mate'.

The stages are as follows:

Apprentice - there to help clean up, make tea, get butties, pull cable, clip stuff, do jobs nobody else wants to do, learn a bit when someone can be available to show you. (£4.81-9.50/hr)

Mate - there to help clean up, pull cable, clip stuff, do jobs nobody else wants to do, learn a bit when someone can be available to show you. Like an apprentice but on much better money. (£12-15/hr)

Improver - works with the 'fully qualified' and/or experienced electricians. Doesn't know the job inside out yet but is handy with most things and can be left to do them on their own. Should have some base qualifications like BS7671 18th Edition and CSCS/ECS card. On decent money. (£15-19/hr)

Electrician - like an improver except is expected to know how to figure things out and make jobs work alone or in a team. Should be able to figure out how to install unknown stuff by reading manual and/or schematic. Should know how to test and bell stuff out. Makes a couple of quid an hour more than an improver. (£16-24/hr)

The above is for site work. For private work all bets are off and it depends what you can negotiate with the main contractor or customer. I'm subbing at the moment. Last week i was on £18.50 an hour for 2 days, then £175/day for 3 days, and next week i'm on £1300/week. So highly depends on job (i'm considered an improver, and i ditched an apprenticeship at £9/hr to go it on my own).

 

[Aaron b]

If you take a job as a mate, you are there as a labourer. You will be expected to graft not watch. There might not be any teaching or progression and you may always be doing the same work as there's no agreement to train you. They may not be supportive of you spending time taking photos and meeting assessors.

With an apprenticeship you are a trainee. The employer should give you the time to show you things and has a duty to do this. If required they should allow days off for college. I would expect them to help you with your portfolio by putting you on the jobs you require for your NVQ so you can complete the criteria.

You might be able to negotiate a better position depending on your practical experience.

 

[DPG]

What on-site experience do you have? If it's none you're going to be considered an electrical labourer or 'mate'.

The stages are as follows:

Apprentice - there to help clean up, make tea, get butties, pull cable, clip stuff, do jobs nobody else wants to do, learn a bit when someone can be available to show you. (£4.81-9.50/hr)

Mate - there to help clean up, pull cable, clip stuff, do jobs nobody else wants to do, learn a bit when someone can be available to show you. Like an apprentice but on much better money. (£12-15/hr)

Improver - works with the 'fully qualified' and/or experienced electricians. Doesn't know the job inside out yet but is handy with most things and can be left to do them on their own. Should have some base qualifications like BS7671 18th Edition and CSCS/ECS card. On decent money. (£15-19/hr)

Electrician - like an improver except is expected to know how to figure things out and make jobs work alone or in a team. Should be able to figure out how to install unknown stuff by reading manual and/or schematic. Should know how to test and bell stuff out. Makes a couple of quid an hour more than an improver. (£16-24/hr)

The above is for site work. For private work all bets are off and it depends what you can negotiate with the main contractor or customer. I'm subbing at the moment. Last week i was on £18.50 an hour for 2 days, then £175/day for 3 days, and next week i'm on £1300/week. So highly depends on job (i'm considered an improver, and i ditched an apprenticeship at £9/hr to go it on my own).

I think that's bad advice you are giving re the apprenticeship option and I suspect it's based on your own experience.

 

[pc1966]

I think that's bad advice you are giving re the apprenticeship option and I suspect it's based on your own experience.

Well I would not say "bad advice" but as you say it is somewhat focused on swaRRR's personal experience. Useful still to have ideas of what might be paid and for what.

I don't really know the qualification structures any more but certainly the OP should apply for a range of opportunities and stress what they know so far, and also what they can do. An attitude of wanting to learn and be helpful also goes a long way!

 

[swaRRR]

I think that's bad advice you are giving re the apprenticeship option and I suspect it's based on your own experience.

Advice? I just laid out what apprentices do i didn't give any advice

 

[DPG]

Advice? I just laid out what apprentices do i didn't give any advice

I'm sure a lot of apprentices (and the people mentoring them for that matter) would take issue with your opinion.

 

[swaRRR]

Well I would not say "bad advice" but as you say it is somewhat focused on swaRRR's personal experience. Useful still to have ideas of what might be paid and for what.

I don't really know the qualification structures any more but certainly the OP should apply for a range of opportunities and stress what they know so far, and also what they can do. An attitude of wanting to learn and be helpful also goes a long way!

'fully qualified' now generally means 18th Edition, NVQ3, AM2.

The problem is you can't get the NVQ without either the Level 3 in electrical installation (off one of the bodies, C&G and EAL most common) OR 5 years experience. If you go the experience route you have to do a 'skills scan' and an interview to make sure you're not telling porkies. You also need your 2391-50 Initial Verification before you can get signed off on the NVQ and i don't believe you need that to get the NVQ if you have a Level 3 qualification.

 

[swaRRR]

I'm sure a lot of apprentices (and the people mentoring them for that matter) would take issue with your opinion.

What opinion? I didn't give one here in this thread.

And if they do that's fine, we all have one and they don't have to take mine to heart. (even though i didn't give it here)

 

[DPG]

What opinion? I didn't give one here in this thread.

And if they do that's fine, we all have one and they don't have to take mine to heart. (even though i didn't give it here)

OK, if not an opinion then a description. I'm not going to argue the ---- over semantics.

 

[swaRRR]

OK, not a definition. A description. I'm not going to argue the ---- over semantics.

Well don't go on about my 'opinion' in a thread where i merely stated what an apprentice does and what the pay is. If you didn't mistakenly attribute things to me i wouldn't have to 'argue' with you would i?

 

[DPG]

Well don't go on about my 'opinion' in a thread where i merely stated what an apprentice does and what the pay is. If you didn't mistakenly attribute things to me i wouldn't have to 'argue' with you would i?

It was still your opinion of what an apprentice does. But I can't be bothered arguing with you.

 

[swaRRR]

It was still your opinion of what an apprentice does. But I can't be bothered arguing with you.

Get a life mate.

 

[DPG]

Get a life mate.

You gave an opinion of what an apprentice is. I questioned it. What's the problem?

 

[davesparks]

Well don't go on about my 'opinion' in a thread where i merely stated what an apprentice does and what the pay is. If you didn't mistakenly attribute things to me i wouldn't have to 'argue' with you would i?

You have only stated your version of what an apprentice does, which, to most of us I think, represents an apprentice who is being mis-treated.

You've also missed out some of the grades from your list, not mentioned the pay increases at various stages of training and not given any info as to the JIB rates.

 

[davesparks]

'fully qualified' now generally means 18th Edition, NVQ3, AM2.

Electrician - level 3 tech cert, NVQ 3 and AM2.
Approved electrician - all of the above, Inspection and testing cert plus 2 years experience as Electrician.
Technician - all of the above plus C course/design course/HNC plus 5 years experience as approved electrician.

 

[davesparks]

I'm sure a lot of apprentices (and the people mentoring them for that matter) would take issue with your opinion.

There does seem to be somewhat of an anti-apprenticeship rhetoric here.

 

[As1999]

I have a city and guild in electrical installation and a btec in electrical engineering. I didn't realise edexel/btec were doing installation courses, I always thought they were more academically biased.

Was it a two-year course? I assume they are all equivalent (like EAL) you might just have to tell employers the equivalent C&G course numbers as it might not be immediately evident how it compares.

I assume you would be an apprentice. I wouldn't be afraid of stating your level and knowledge and applying for electrician jobs, if they are expanding you might have a good chance of being considered.

Thank you. No it was a one year course.

Yeah I’ve been applying to firms on indeed etc, also rang round a lot of the local sparks without luck

Just wondered if I was looking at it from the wrong angle …

 

[As1999]

Thank you for all the advice everyone. I do really appreciate it.

Regarding experience I have just finished my first week doing 12 hour days on a site in London. I have another week left.

This is all unpaid so if it doesn’t lead to paid work I’m hoping it will look good to potential employers?

I do really appreciate all the advice given though!

 

[Aaron b]

Work might be quiet for some contractors due to the time of year and worries about the economy. Keep at it and if you can afford it perhaps a week or two of work experience might help you and open some doors. I've noticed CEF sometimes has job adverts.

Edit:
... Just saw our post, and it seems like you're on the right track.

 

[As1999]

Just a quick update for anyone who’s interested…

I finished the 2 weeks unpaid and the company decided to take me on. I am working on site in London and will be starting college soon for my NVQ 3, then onto do the AM2!

Thanks everyone for the advice and I’m so happy I got here.

 

[Aaron b]

Just a quick update for anyone who’s interested…

I finished the 2 weeks unpaid and the company decided to take me on. I am working on site in London and will be starting college soon for my NVQ 3, then onto do the AM2!

Thanks everyone for the advice and I’m so happy I got here.

That's great news, congratulations. Hopefully, you will stay around the forum! There's a trainee section for when you have enrolled too, you'll find that's a safe place to ask questions without getting flamed down. Good luck on your journey...

 

[swaRRR]

J

You have only stated your version of what an apprentice does, which, to most of us I think, represents an apprentice who is being mis-treated.

You've also missed out some of the grades from your list, not mentioned the pay increases at various stages of training and not given any info as to the JIB rates.

Jib rates....jib aren't fit for purpose, anyone interested in a decent living doesn't care about their rates.