What is an example of functional earth?

[nicebutdim]

ye I've had it marked and it was wrong also could you elaborate on what high integrity earthing is and the difference between the 2( I'm not familiar with functional earthing in the 1st place apart from google and reg definition)

I'm definitely not the best person to ask about functional earthing, but thankfully @plugsandsparks is on top of that.

High integrity earthing is another matter entirely and involves splitting CPC across two terminals, so two seperate routes to earth exist. This is generally found on circuits supplying a lot of IT equipment where earth leakage currents could be reasonably high - on a radial circuit a second CPC would return from end of line. Another benefit of high integrity earthing (perhaps the one from which its name is derived) is that a path to earth exists if one CPC should come loose at an outlet.

@PC1996 generally provides good explanations on this subject, but a forum search didn't provide me with such a post to link in place of my less than concise explanation above.


I should add that getting stuff wrong is part of the learning process. No one gets 100% in every exam and assessment. It grinds my gears that we never know exactly where marks are dropped in exams, but at least assessments provide an opportunity to learn from mistakes and gain further knowledge.

 

[WilliamAtkin]

TBH, if it was an old paper written a few years ago , i would have gone for the telephone system main control unit. Hotels will have multiple exchange lines and these typically would use earth calling, however nowadays phone lines are VOIP, fed over optical fibre so no earth required there, lol
Second i would have gone for RCD/RCBO which has the cream wire which provides a reference earth just in case the neutral is out , it enables the RCD to operate,
However, quite frankly, its a bit misleading as you could easily find nowadays no functional earth at all in a Hotel.
Thats really a nasty question, better example question would be.
"How would you recognise a functional earth and give an example of where it would be used"

what about air con ?
or swimming pool or sauna equipment ?

 

[plugsandsparks]

what about air con ?
or swimming pool or sauna equipment ?

I install a/c, never seen a FE , ditto SP or Sauna. Need to consider a FE is not there to carry fault current for ADS, its purpose is to enable something to operate using earth as a reference, thats why the telephone system FE is such a good example as the telephone exchange can be miles away and yet you can send a signal to the exchange from the system by just switching the A leg to earth for a few mS. Without the FE, the system will not be able to make outgoing calls so its fundamental to its operation.

 

[pc1966]

@Marvo's example of SPD is an interesting case. Here the earth is important for the SPD to function (as it serves to clamp the voltage, both L-N and live-E, to sane limits) but it is not the usual safety earth as it is not present to meed ADS.

 

[nicebutdim]

@Marvo's example of SPD is an interesting case. Here the earth is important for the SPD to function (as it serves to clamp the voltage, both L-N and live-E, to sane limits) but it is not the usual safety earth as it is not present to meed ADS.

Probably a more relevant example than many others. Wish I'd thought of it last year as I remember struggling with the same question and can not remember what I'd given as an answer.

 

[pc1966]

As @nicebutdim says the "high integrity earth" is all about reducing the risk of an open CPC for situations where that alone presents a hazard, and is not needing a 2nd L-E fault to make it dangerous.

While the usual guidance for socket outlets are they need 30mA additional protection (in most cases) they ought to have less than 10mA of total leakage to minimise the risk of RCD trips, that sort of current is about the point where some poor sod would be unable to let go and/or might suffer injury from the actions of trying to free themselves.

Hence the idea of dual CPC paths and avoiding single points of failure in only one terminal for the CPC connections.

Edit: See this article:

High Protective Conductor Currents in Electrical Installations

tinyurl.com

 

[nicebutdim]

Slightly off topic, but as the subject of clean earthing was raised previously I'll link another thread for reference - one which explored the subject from an unexpected angle.

Unusual RCD fused spur

A recent EICR turned up a fault: an RCD fused spur was feeding a socket and a shower pump, and neither socket or pump had continuity on the CPC. The circuit was also showing low IR between live conductors and earth (0.09 Mohms). I came to do the remedial work and found the reason for the...

www.electriciansforums.net

 

[WilliamAtkin]

I install a/c, never seen a FE , ditto SP or Sauna. Need to consider a FE is not there to carry fault current for ADS, its purpose is to enable something to operate using earth as a reference, thats why the telephone system FE is such a good example as the telephone exchange can be miles away and yet you can send a signal to the exchange from the system by just switching the A leg to earth for a few mS. Without the FE, the system will not be able to make outgoing calls so its fundamental to its operation.

would it be the same with cables for broadband ? and what about fire alarm systems ?

 

[WilliamAtkin]

@Marvo's example of SPD is an interesting case. Here the earth is important for the SPD to function (as it serves to clamp the voltage, both L-N and live-E, to sane limits) but it is not the usual safety earth as it is not present to meed ADS.

50kA 4 Module 3 Pole and Neutral Type 1+2+3 Surge Protector

Suitable for TN-C-S systems

www.cef.co.uk

This is the SPD I chose for this circuit
Does this have a Functional earth , I didn’t see anything in the product description saying so but I may be missing something on the photo as there is like a little green connecter thing and I’m not to sure like what it is

 

[pc1966]

This is the SPD I chose for this circuit
Does this have a Functional earth , I didn’t see anything in the product description saying so but I may be missing something on the photo as there is like a little green connecter thing and I’m not to sure like what it is

It has an earth, marked as 'PE' but as above it is not for ADS.

Now whether you call it "functional" in the sense it is needed to fulfil its over-voltage limiting function, or "protective" in the sense it is designed to protect against over-voltage, is a point that could be debated for some time.

EMC filters have a similar CPC connection that is not for ADS, but they are not usually called "protection" even through they are protecting against excessive conducted interference.

TL;DR is serving for ADS the definitiaon for "protection"?