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Exactly my point. I could wire a building with German regs, nothing holds me to BS7671.

In Germany yes you can, however if you are in England then you abide by our rules.

As far as England goes:
The registration bodies would not accept it.
LABC would not accept it.
Insurance companies would not accept it.
The HSE would not accept it in an investigation if an incident occurred.
A Judge would not accept it if you were put on trial as a result of said incident.
 
In Germany yes you can, however if you are in England then you abide by our rules.

As far as England goes:
The registration bodies would not accept it.
LABC would not accept it.
Insurance companies would not accept it.
The HSE would not accept it in an investigation if an incident occurred.
A Judge would not accept it if you were put on trial as a result of said incident.

Fair enough. But to be honest, I remember on another forum saying BS7671 should be publicly disclosed for free because its law with posters saying its not law since part P does not mandate it... A bit confused.

But anyways... if the sockets at Bayonet, do I still need DP switching?
 
But its not mandated, is it? Should is not shall.

That is a technical point which would take some expensive legal professionals to argue over.

I think the general idea is that nobody would be so downright stupid as to work to non-uk regulations in general installations in the uk! It would make you uncompetitive in terms of price and get you a terrible reputation when all of your customers find out that you have not worked to uk regulations.
 
That is a technical point which would take some expensive legal professionals to argue over.

I think the general idea is that nobody would be so downright stupid as to work to non-uk regulations in general installations in the uk! It would make you uncompetitive in terms of price and get you a terrible reputation when all of your customers find out that you have not worked to uk regulations.

Makes sense.

For those who dont believe 138/240Y is not a real DNO supply voltage here is the tag on a transformer which is used in a 3 phase bank to provide a 240 volt 3 phase L-L supply:
 

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Fair enough. But to be honest, I remember on another forum saying BS7671 should be publicly disclosed for free because its law with posters saying its not law since part P does not mandate it... A bit confused.

But anyways... if the sockets at Bayonet, do I still need DP switching?

BS7671 is not law but it is referenced in law. Part P is only concerned with domestic installations.

The type of lampholder is irrelevant to the switching requirement, the requirement is that all line conductors (ie. all conductors not connected to earth at source) be broken.

The question of lampholders is a seperate issue. The regulations require that the outer contact of ES lampholders be connected to neutral, therefore you cannot use a two phase supply with an ES lampholder. You can use pretty much every other type of lampholder including BC, GU10, GX, GY etc etc
 
BS7671 is not law but it is referenced in law. Part P is only concerned with domestic installations.

So the option is indeed their to wire something to other regs?

The type of lampholder is irrelevant to the switching requirement, the requirement is that all line conductors (ie. all conductors not connected to earth at source) be broken.

Is this mandated by any particular reg? I just dont know how I would go about 2 way switches.


The question of lampholders is a seperate issue. The regulations require that the outer contact of ES lampholders be connected to neutral, therefore you cannot use a two phase supply with an ES lampholder. You can use pretty much every other type of lampholder including BC, GU10, GX, GY etc etc

Is BC bayonet? GU10 is easy to get with LED. Easy route to take with LED.
 
So the option is indeed their to wire something to other regs?



Is this mandated by any particular reg? I just dont know how I would go about 2 way switches.




Is BC bayonet? GU10 is easy to get with LED. Easy route to take with LED.

Only as far as bs7671 being non-statutory is concerned. Your insurance would likely be void and you would open yourself up to a heck of a liability should anything go wrong!

I don't have a regs book to hand, but the section called isolation and switching would be a good place to start. I assume you own a current copy of bs7671 if you are designing to it?

BC is bayonet cap yes. LED gu10 is the cheap and easy option yes but are not great when compared to a fitting designed and built using an LED source from the outset.
 
Only as far as bs7671 being non-statutory is concerned. Your insurance would likely be void and you would open yourself up to a heck of a liability should anything go wrong!

I don't have a regs book to hand, but the section called isolation and switching would be a good place to start. I assume you own a current copy of bs7671 if you are designing to it?

BC is bayonet cap yes. LED gu10 is the cheap and easy option yes but are not great when compared to a fitting designed and built using an LED source from the outset.


Sounds great, I will take a look at switching and isolation! :)

EFLI and disconnect times are still 0.4 seconds for TN?
 
So as I understand it now, you are designing an installation outside the UK, where UK building regs do not apply, where the supply is not of the type provided by UK DNOs, but you wish to comply as far as possible with BS7671 or use the standard as the design framework. A lot of head scratching could have been avoided if this had been explained in the OP, as this is a forum primarily for UK electricians working to UK regs in the UK.

You substitute Schuko and radials for BS1363 and rings, to avoid the problems mentioned above, and provide DP OCP and isolation throughout. And then we get to 2-way light switching and I am going to hide behind a pile of DP relays!
 
So as I understand it now, you are designing an installation outside the UK, where UK building regs do not apply, where the supply is not of the type provided by UK DNOs, but you wish to comply as far as possible with BS7671 or use the standard as the design framework. A lot of head scratching could have been avoided if this had been explained in the OP, as this is a forum primarily for UK electricians working to UK regs in the UK.

More along IEC60364, but I am using BS7671 to to verify my thinking.

You substitute Schuko and radials for BS1363 and rings, to avoid the problems mentioned above, and provide DP OCP and isolation throughout. And then we get to 2-way light switching and I am going to hide behind a pile of DP relays!


I am still leaning toward light fittings only needing single pole isolation when dealing with GU10. I do not see any reason to install DP switching unless occupants or users will come in contact with lives parts such as service, testing or modification. In that case a DP MCB will do the job as power must be disconnected before attempting such.
 
I think Gardner you will need a copy of the NEC standard which was changed in 2014 and comes into force I believe soon, if not already.

I wouldn't worry too much about light circuits and small power, invariaby they will be 127 volt Uo.

The 220/230 in domestic will be mainly be limited to AC units, and will have double pole isolators

Commerical/Industrial will mainly use 3 phase 220v and have the suitable switching.
 
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I think Gardner you will need a copy of the NEC standard which was changed in 2014 and comes into force I believe soon, if not already.

I wouldn't worry too much about light circuits and small power, invariaby they will be 127 volt Uo.

The 220/230 in domestic will be mainly be limited to AC units, and will have double pole isolators

Commerical/Industrial will mainly use 3 phase 220v and have the suitable switching.

I'm puzzled. how does this relate to the scenario outlined by the OP?
 
I think Gardner you will need a copy of the NEC standard which was changed in 2014 and comes into force I believe soon, if not already.

I wouldn't worry too much about light circuits and small power, invariaby they will be 127 volt Uo.

The 220/230 in domestic will be mainly be limited to AC units, and will have double pole isolators

Commerical/Industrial will mainly use 3 phase 220v and have the suitable switching.

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Well now we know where your designing it for.

IEC 60906-1 'N' socket & plug wasn't fully adopted in Brazil and as far as I remember there are quite a few variations still in use around the country. I think you are basically on an hiding to nothing here. It looks like Brazil could be like many countries, they seem to take standards from bits and pieces all over, until they confrim a direction they want to go. Saudi are now adopting the European Standard. 380/220 60hz. It is rare now to have 220/127 anywhere. But 20 yrs ago it was a mish mash of standards.
 
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Well now we know where your designing it for.

IEC 60906-1 'N' socket & plug wasn't fully adopted in Brazil and as far as I remember there are quite a few variations still in use around the country. I think you are basically on an hiding to nothing here. It looks like Brazil could be like many countries, they seem to take standards from bits and pieces all over, until they confrim a direction they want to go. Saudi are now adopting the European Standard. 380/220 60hz. It is rare now to have 220/127 anywhere. But 20 yrs ago it was a mish mash of standards.

Isnt Saudi Arabia still 127/220?
 

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