SWA Fly lead

Discuss SWA Fly lead in the Electricians' Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

ive always put half the size in on every swa ive terminated,,,,or if there is a seperate cpc run with swa i take into panel through a stuffing gland up to earth bar..
 
What about when its a main panel , we have a job with the swa cables to be terminated into the galvanised steel glandplate on the top of the panel , this is already bolted to the chassis of the panel and has a 16mm bond from the top plate to the earth bar. The panel is a schneider okken . Would you take a flying earth lead from every SWA banjo to the bar in a CPC half the phase size ?? or would this just be overkill. They are using the armour as the CPC for all these outgoing circuits so best readings are needed to meet the disconnection times .

any oppionions welcomed
 
When i worked in a factory i would make off the swa as normal then run a 6mm
earth cable from the brass lockring to a earth clamp on the armour.
contractors used to say it was overkll but it maintains the earth if the
gland comes loose.
 
Pblec I mean this with no dis-respect but I hope you are not undertaking this task as the main installer as you could be a little out of your depth. We are willing to help you on here but basic understanding of earthily and bonding is a must.
 
no disrespect i know what it is thats why i asked

main protective bonding conductor - earth wire comeing into house

main equipotential bonding - incoming services, steel etc

supplementory bonding - is additional bonding

wp says its earthing and not supplementory bonding i beleive earthing and bonding are the same thing and was hopping for him to clarify
 
Well for staters the earth coming into your house is called your MAIN EARTHING CONDUCTOR not bonding.
And secondly wp is right what your proposing is an earth tag. Your earthing the SWA armour.
Bonding is bringing all extrenous parts to the same potential so different potentials don't exist.
 
S = Isquared x T then hit square root and finally divided by K i think lol cant show exactly asdont know how to on the laptop its in the regs pg128
S = is the nominal cross sectional area of the conducter
I squared is the value in amperes of fault current of negligable impedence which can flow through the protective device , due account being taken fof the current limiting effect on the circuit impedences and the limiting capability I2t
T the operating time of the disconnecting device in seconds corresponds to the fault current I amperes
K is the factor taking into account of the resistivity ,temperature coefficient and heat capacity of the conductor material , and the apropriate initial and final temperatures
 
simon please its too easy check out page 167 544.1 amendment 1 2011

is supplementory bonding not connecting of conductive parts of electrical and non electrical items to prevent a dangerous voltage to prevent a dangerous voltage apearing between them under an earth fault conditions
 
i beleive its exactly that and i even quoted the regulation should someone wish to dispute my statement.
the fly lead is earthing / providing supplementory or aditional bonding to the armour - just in case i didn't bury it deep enough.
them terms are quite alright i've not made any blaring errors
 
pblec said:
i beleive its exactly that and i even quoted the regulation should someone wish to dispute my statement.
the fly lead is earthing / providing supplementory or aditional bonding to the armour - just in case i didn't bury it deep enough.
them terms are quite alright i've not made any blaring errors
Click to expand...

But what you keep failing to miss is earthing and bonding are two separate things.
Your idea is fine to provide an additional earth tag in case of failure of a decent earthing of the gland to the panel (like if someone fails to scrape off the galvanised paint).
But I would call this earthing because you are providing a back up to the steel wire earthing. Others may have a different opinion. There is no potential difference to occur between the two points because both points are already earthed.
 
its not a back up to the SWA earthing it is the SWA earthing and yes the proper term is bonding (but we all know the difference)

either way is my original post right or wrong
 
sorry just red your post am i completely stupid i've been classing the fly lead as the link from the gland nut / banjo to the earth bar.

is the fly lead something different
 
if the bonding wasn't connected, then theres no connection to earth for the armour.

i'd say the armourd sheath is an extraneous conected part so needs to be connected back to the earth to allow the supply to be automaticaly disconnected by the circut protective devices should a fault occur.

would you not say that?
 
and heres me thinking a fly lead was so as to take my pet fly walkies.
 
pblec said:
if the bonding wasn't connected, then theres no connection to earth for the armour.

i'd say the armourd sheath is an extraneous conected part so needs to be connected back to the earth to allow the supply to be automaticaly disconnected by the circut protective devices should a fault occur.

would you not say that?
Click to expand...

No I wouldn't.
The SWA is connected to earth via the gland which would be connected to the steel casing of the DB board which is connected to the earth bar via the way it is made. Therefore you don't need a fly lead. If your DB casing is plastic than you would use a fly leadbut this would act as an extension of the earthed steel wire. Therefore an earth.
 
what steel casing on the DB, its not mentioned, did you presume it was steel, id tend to think if it was steel then the question wouldn't have been asked either way the reply is still the same supplementory bonding is 1/2 protective conductor 544.2
 
But it's not supplementary bonding.

Why can't you understand that?? The steel wire is not an extraneous part. For starters it's not part of a non-electrical condition because it's part of a cable!! Your not using the fly to bring it to the same potential your using it to earth the cable.

It's the same concept as having an earth wire in a bit of twin and earth. Can't get clearer than that.
 
so your latest presumption is the sheath is part of the cable,

now thats where i'm going wrong i'm saying the sheath is not part of the cable the cable is the cores the sheath is the armour protecting these cores, and with this being a metal part which will only become live under a fault condition will require supplementory bonding,

i was sure that bit of copper in T&E was the CPC and therefore part of the circuit.

are you now saying you presumed the sheath was being used as a CPC
 
no please 54 when i get proved wrong i have to correct it so it can only improve me.

i'd guess there are plenty of people out there who don't know these things so its an educational process, we have to stay current and if it turns out i am correct with my assumptions then that can't be a bad thing as it shows some of you old timers on these boards have to be prepared to back up your statements rather than confuse us all with general coments
 
Are you telling me that in all your time you have never used the STeel wire of SWA cable as a CPC?

I'm going to get my book out in the morning and quote all the regs back to you till it's coming out of your ears.
 
Archy its not trolling please feel free to jump in, but be aware whats tripping everyone up is termanology on this.

a question was asked i answered but the question is terminology is the connection to the armour on SWA earthing or bonding, because earthing doesn't exost according to the regs but bonding does and i beleive this bonding is supplementory or aditional
 
I reckon this thread was more industrial than house basher so as you said earlier " pblec " to Mark on another thread best you get back in your box !
 
pblec said:
Archy its not trolling please feel free to jump in, but be aware whats tripping everyone up is termanology on this.

a question was asked i answered but the question is terminology is the connection to the armour on SWA earthing or bonding, because earthing doesn't exost according to the regs but bonding does and i beleive this bonding is supplementory or aditional
Click to expand...

It's your terminology that's mixed here mate.

So the term earthing don't exist? What is it called when you connect the CPC of a circuit to the earth bar than??
 
pblec said:
no please 54 when i get proved wrong i have to correct it so it can only improve me.

i'd guess there are plenty of people out there who don't know these things so its an educational process, we have to stay current and if it turns out i am correct with my assumptions then that can't be a bad thing as it shows some of you old timers on these boards have to be prepared to back up your statements rather than confuse us all with general coments
Click to expand...

pblec,

After 28 years in the industry as an electrician, you shouldn't really be having this conversation, ...but You are!!!
 
i have used the outer core of swa as a cpc but that wasn't the question

i couldn't use it as CPC when i first qualified as the firm i worked for didn't allow it and even now i won't - but that doesn't mean its wrong.

i'm sorry but what it does mean is you need to get your head in a regs book and refresh your knowladge a little, its not an insult i've just opened my green book tonight because of these forums.
 
rule of thumb if you cant be bothered to work out is use the same size of earth cable to live conductors upto 16mm after that it is half
 
pblec said:
i have used the outer core of swa as a cpc but that wasn't the question

i couldn't use it as CPC when i first qualified as the firm i worked for didn't allow it and even now i won't - but that doesn't mean its wrong.

i'm sorry but what it does mean is you need to get your head in a regs book and refresh your knowladge a little, its not an insult i've just opened my green book tonight because of these forums.
Click to expand...

Read on mate read on. Ive said nothing wrong in this thread and if you think I have prove it with a erg and why,

and you havnt answered my question, what is it called when a CPC is connected to an earth bar because the term earthing doesn't exist?
 
sorry mate i was trying to be diplomatic, i'm new on the forum and their has been a few mistakes made in this topic.

as you may know people read on forums and look at the number of posts then beleive everything they say, which is a bad thing.

just because i've been at it for 28 years doesn't mean i know everything, you will find i'll ask some bloody stupid questions that apprentices will know but it may be something i've just taken for granted
 
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