Shall i give this lad a chance

[uksparks]

Hi,

Just had my first CV through the door from a 16 year old who has previously done work experience with another local firm.

I have a CU change on Friday, what do you say, shall I ring him and see if he wants to tag along?

Got an extension next week too.

Any thoughts? Can it hurt to do so? Do I pay him and if so, what in? Biscuits and tea?

 

[trev]

How about you give him a short trial period when you pay him what you can afford (if he pulls his weight) if he's any good then you could offer him a proper apprenticeship maybe

 

[dan86]

Is he looking for money or is he happy with just the experience for now? extra pair of hands is always handy but only if they know wtf they're doing mind. ..

 

[uksparks]

im not busy enough to do anything too formal on a permenant basis but if he wants to come along for a nominal fee to see if its really what he wants i can do that.

 

[uksparks]

i think he is looking for a basic junior position and willing to start from the bottom going on his letter.

 

[dan86]

answered your own question then really.

 

[tazz]

Everyone deserves a chance, be totally upfront that you a only a few jobs, and give him a trainees wage....they dont deserve to work for nothing

 

[bigdavs83]

We all had to start at the very bottom one day. However it's a big risk and more companies are looking at more mature lads at like 19 and 20 as they are deemed less of a liability. Doesn't mean they are any better or worse. Meet him and let him tag along for a week if he looks decent. He may just surprise you (or not)!

 

[Guest77]

Hi,

Just had my first CV through the door from a 16 year old who has previously done work experience with another local firm.

I have a CU change on Friday, what do you say, shall I ring him and see if he wants to tag along?

Got an extension next week too.

Any thoughts? Can it hurt to do so? Do I pay him and if so, what in? Biscuits and tea?

If you do let me know so I can put you on my ignore list, I would pay him a wage if he is working, only a tory would expect someone to work for biscuits.

 

[7029 dave]

Give him a go uk, if you can never know might work out for you both.

 

[Plonker 3]

If you have time and the facility to give him some time do it, you don't have to offer him a full time position. Obviously don't expect him to work for free maybe payment with some tools could be a compromise so at least you then know they may be of some use to them if they get a similar chance with someone else.

 

[Guest77]

When I was working for someone else before I started up on my own the company I was working for used to employ work experience lads for a week or so a year. It was unpaid and basically the lads were treated like horse muck from the company ---- in the office, They would make them sweep up and make tea plus carry tools about for the blokes etc and actually teach them nothing during the week. I always paid out of my own pocket 20-30 quid to the lad or lads I had with me, and I actually had them pulling wires in and I swept up. I remember one lad asking me why I was sweeping and vaccuming up when I was running the job and they were there to do it, my response was simple to them=your not paid enough to sweep up, that was my view then and is now, if you take a lad on he needs to be paid and treated properly, otherwise why take them on in the first place.

 

[Andy78]

On a serious and boring note, does one have to alter one's insurance to cover employees as well, if as a sole trader with relevant sole trader insurance, one was to entertain such a lad for a work trial ?

I ask hypothetically for myself and on behalf of Uksparks. I have had heaps of CVs through in the last year from keen young lads. Like the OP I don't have the need for a permanent lackey, but some jobs could do with another body sometimes, and if I can give some experience I would be more than happy to do so.

 

[Plonker 3]

Exactly Mike, worked with quite a few apprentices myself. Some have had a pop at me for doing nothing but talking and walking around doing not a lot when it's been quiet on site. My response is similar to yours "how are you going to learn how to do something if you don't actually do it".

 

[davesparks]

My mentors attitude was basically that he had already had all the practice he needed at doing the electrical work and I didn't, so he would happily do the majority of the chasing and sweeping up etc.
And now I have the same attitude towards trainees.

I have had young lads come out with me for a bit of experience and to see what it is all about. I haven't always been in a position to pay them due to putting every last penny in to another business venture, but I picked them up, bought them lunch, took them home and only had them doing interesting things and none of the labourers work.

 

[Guest77]

My mentors attitude was basically that he had already had all the practice he needed at doing the electrical work and I didn't, so he would happily do the majority of the chasing and sweeping up etc.
And now I have the same attitude towards trainees.

I have had young lads come out with me for a bit of experience and to see what it is all about. I haven't always been in a position to pay them due to putting every last penny in to another business venture, but I picked them up, bought them lunch, took them home and only had them doing interesting things and none of the labourers work.

Well transporting them around, feeding them and actually training them to carry out electrical work and not treating them like a navvy is a good step for sure, chucking them 20 quid would be even better but under the circumstances you did well by them.

 

[davesparks]

I felt really guilty at the time about it.
But with the little cash jobs on the way home they got half the money.

 

[Harni]

Id give him a go for a day or two just to see what the lad is like. Unfortunately a lot of young guys now are idiots with no motivation to work and expect everything handed to them and i think this puts a lot of people off taking on people straight out of school or young people but theres also a lot of good ones out there. Give him a chance. I had the problem of not getting a chance for ages when i left school because of the stereotype and i think this is partly due to the high rate of unemployment.

 

[uksparks]

Thanks for all the help here, yes if he's doing something then yes I'd pay him, the biscuits was a joke, us with me there, there wouldn't be any left to hand out.

so, he is 16, I feel he deserves a chance, like you say he might be good. I have no idea how much to pay him if he's helping on a job. For example, next week I'm charging the woman £200 per day labour, so have enough spare to pay him with in cash. What's the normal rate per hour then for him?

 

[uksparks]

It's like everything in life, until someone gives you a chance you never get anywhere .

 

[Guest77]

If you are picking him up and taking him home, buying him lunch and actually teaching him proper work and not treating him as a slave then 20 quid cash a day is acceptable for a youngster aged 16 IMO

 

[uksparks]

On a serious and boring note, does one have to alter one's insurance to cover employees as well, if as a sole trader with relevant sole trader insurance, one was to entertain such a lad for a work trial ?

I ask hypothetically for myself and on behalf of Uksparks. I have had heaps of CVs through in the last year from keen young lads. Like the OP I don't have the need for a permanent lackey, but some jobs could do with another body sometimes, and if I can give some experience I would be more than happy to do so.

You make a valid point, am I opening a can of worms here? What happens if he gets hurt whilst he's helping me etc?

 

[Harni]

Well this was 8 years ago now but when i was doing a bit of work experience (albeit with the fire alarms), i was being given £40 a day but it was an unofficial thing just helping out, learning a bit and deciding if its a career i want to follow

 

[Plonker 3]

I would say about £15-£20 per day, forget the hourly rate at the minute. The offer of a good reference too should keep them going as well.

 

[uksparks]

£20 per day sounds fair, maybe a bit more, soon adds up, it's £100 per week, better than a kick on the bum

 

[Guest77]

£20 per day sounds fair, maybe a bit more, soon adds up, it's £100 per week, better than a kick on the bum

as Diilb said, 75-100 a week is fine, I would make him work for it though, he would have to graft, but he would be learning at the same time.

 

[uksparks]

I don't want to go over board here but hypothetically he seems ok and I say come and me on this extension next week, do I need to provide ppe etc? Not jumping the gun here but want to know where my liabilities lay...

 

[Plonker 3]

We have all been in then person asking shoes, being not the opposite side will always be difficult. £100 per week at 16 is a good wage, may need to speak to your accountant about the full implications of this.

 

[Guest77]

I don't want to go over board here but hypothetically he seems ok and I say come and me on this extension next week, do I need to provide ppe etc? Not jumping the gun here but want to know where my liabilities lay...

use common sence, if it is needed and he is in danger of getting hurt without it then obviously he will need it, if no danger then no problem.

 

[Guest77]

We have all been in then person asking shoes, being not the opposite side will always be difficult. £100 per week at 16 is a good wage, may need to speak to your accountant about the full implications of this.

yes it is a good wage, but it is 2014 where the average shopping bill is 150 quid a week now and that works out at 2.50 per hour which is what an apprentice is usually on the first year.

 

[Plonker 3]

yes it is a good wage, but it is 2014 where the average shopping bill is 150 quid a week now and that works out at 2.50 per hour which is what an apprentice is usually on the first year.

a quick search brings up a larger hourly rate than that.

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

 

[uksparks]

use common sence, if it is needed and he is in danger of getting hurt without it then obviously he will need it, if no danger then no problem.

Do you feel I should provide this?

 

[bigdavs83]

Unfortunately you as an employer are duty bound to provide ppe by the hse. If he is working for you he will be in your employment. But what will he really need? Steel toe caps? He may already have these from his previous experience. Hi vis vest and hard hat? You've prob got those in the van along with gloves and goggles so it prob won't cost you that much.

 

[uksparks]

True, very true, I have a spare hat and hi vis etc, no spare shoes lol. I'll call him tomorrow and see if he sounds like a knob, ive taken a look on the Internet and he seems to like football as he is the captain of his local team, he has a job in a food establishment.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

True, very true, I have a spare hat and hi vis etc, no spare shoes lol. I'll call him tomorrow and see if he sounds like a knob, ive taken a look on the Internet and he seems to like football as he is the captain of his local team, he has a job in a food establishment.

just make sure theres no clowning about from him on site then.....

 

[uksparks]

Glenn I'll get round to emailing you back tomorrow...

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Shows he's willing to work and not sit around all day doing nothing, give him a chance and see how it goes, he might decide it's not for him in the end.

 

[Knobhead]

We have all been in then person asking shoes, being not the opposite side will always be difficult. £100 per week at 16 is a good wage, may need to speak to your accountant about the full implications of this.

I daren't say what I started on. You'll fall about laughing.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

I daren't say what I started on. You'll fall about laughing.

With you being a grumpy git I'd say shillings!

 

[Guest77]

Do you feel I should provide this?

hard hat=2.50, high viz vest=2.50, yes provide it, regarding steel toe boots, I would advise him he needs to get some, not because he is working with you but he will need them in anycase if he is considering this trade, not all employers supply footwear, but for the sake of a fiver you should have a spare hat and vest in the van anyhow?

 

[telectrix]

don't forget to upgrade your pl ins. to cover yourself + 1 employee. won't cost much, but you'll be covered if he puts his foot through a ceiling. you will probably need employers liability unless you class him as self-employed.

 

[Besoeker]

I'm all for giving people a chance. And have done so. Sometimes it's worked out and sometimes come back to bite me on the bum. And I'm not into SM.

So, my two pence worth...........FWIW
It's a while since I dealt with employment but a couple of points.
If you employ him I think you will have to pay him not less than NMW which is currently £3.68 an hour for his age group.
I would put in writing at least the basic terms of employment - rate of pay, hours of work even if flexible, grounds for dismissal, and any other caveat you think appropriate.

I would also have a formal documented chat about what he may or may not do. Our new recruits have a two hour induction which, in my view, is totally OTT. Especially since the guy who conducts the wouldn't know one end of an electron from the other - personal whinge and done. But just make sure the lad knows the limits. What he may or may not do. Electricity is unforgiving. He needs to know that.

Probably this comes across as a bit official/officious and CMA. And I guess it is. But, should things go pear shaped, and I really hope they don't, you could save yourself a lot of grief, regrets, and financial pain.

 

[GMES]

Only just seen the thread.
Uk This lad has approached you, which shows he wants to learn, this is a good start, Also I tend to agree that £20.00 per day with Lunch thrown in is where you want to be.
If he is genuinley fired up about learning the trade and becoming an Electrician, then you will find he will think of the cash as a bonus or at least he should!
If he is purely about the money then I would say he is not for you. Regarding workwear, make sure he as decent trousers on, trainers and boots to cover all scenario's.
Finally take it a day at a time, or a job at a time, You say at the moment you don't have enough work for 2 people, but you will soon find how much more productive you become if you have somone assisting you.
Obviously you can't treat him like a slave, but it doesnt hurt to show him where everything is in the van, and what all the tools in your bag are called, Remember we have different names sometimes for tools, which youngsters don't know about.
Take your time with him,don't talk to him like crap but also don't wrap him up in cotton wool.
This could be the next chapter in you life and a start of bigger jobs and more revenue.
All the best with it mate and keep us upto speed.

 

[uksparks]

Thanks everyone for your input, it's certainly given me something to think about today.

 

[bigdavs83]

Good luck mate.

Hope it works out for you and him and it turns out to be a good business decision for you.

 

[Dizzy_Maskell]

Everyone deserves a chance, be totally upfront that you a only a few jobs, and give him a trainees wage....they dont deserve to work for nothing

On the other hand if he is really keen he would do a few sessions free see if he is worth it and if he does work free/watch for the first couple of times you will be able see his genuine level if interest ,

If it turns out great work out apprentice wage rates and get him involved when you can might be a win win

 

[amckay]

Thanks everyone for your input, it's certainly given me something to think about today.

I rekon £3 an hour is about the nmw for an apprentice. Give him a couple of weeks see if he's any good. Also give him a bit of theory work to do like basic ohms law and transposing formula etc so he can get a taste for that side. If he enjoys it try talking to your local college about taking on an apprentice, colleges round Manchester tend to give employers money for taking on an apprentice. 3days in college and 2days with you! He learns and he earns. After a few years it may well work in your favour. Slightly less time for you on site so more time drawing in more business.
Check with your insurance firm about employers liability it might only be £50 extra per year. Tell him to get his own boots and just supply hat vest gloves an eye protection.
I hope he works out for you

 

[uksparks]

Ive spoken to him today and hes coming with me to watch / have a chat whilst i do a CU change. (By the way, im trying a Hager board tomorrow instead)

He seemed nice enough, didn't sound like an idiot and his text was all in proper English with please and thank you too. Ill let you know tomorrow how I got on.

 

[dazza1981]

Ive spoken to him today and hes coming with me to watch / have a chat whilst i do a CU change. (By the way, im trying a Hager board tomorrow instead)

He seemed nice enough, didn't sound like an idiot and his text was all in proper English with please and thank you too. Ill let you know tomorrow how I got on.

His text was in " PROPER " english pmsl

 

[uksparks]

forgot to add, the lad said he has enrolled on the electrical course 3 days a week at college starting in September, presumably 2330 or something. Ill find out tomorrow. He does genuinely sound interested to me.