17th Edition Question

[PangEng]

Hi all,

Sorry if this has already been answered previously

If one of our maintenance technicians currently has 17th edition, is he still allowed to open CUs and install new circuits?

H&S Manager thinks not

Answers on a postcard!

 

[Spoon]

Welcome to the forum mate.
I'm interested in this one, but I have some questions.
Does he have the current regs book?
Does he know the differences from the 17th and current regs?
Does he work to the current regs?

 

[Julie.]

To do any work on electrical equipment, the person needs to be competent.

Competent means having the knowledge and experience for the work being undertaken.

If the work means installing anything new, they would need to be conversant with the current regulations - 18th ammendment 2 today.

That doesn't mean they have to actually pass a test for 18th amd 2, but equally if they are several versions behind; unless they have ensured they are up to date, it would be difficult to say they have sufficient knowledge of the actual current regulations to do this work.

Of course the company's policies, or insurance may mandate that the person must hold a current 18th edition certificate.

 

[PangEng]

Welcome to the forum mate.
I'm interested in this one, but I have some questions.
Does he have the current regs book?
Does he know the differences from the 17th and current regs?
Does he work to the current regs?

Hi mate

He does, and has previously worked to the regs and we've had zero issues with his work

He does have a copy of the 18th, and does seem to keep up to date on amendments etc

H&S Manager was, once upon a time, an electrician in new builds, and is convinced you absolutely must have the 18th before you can either open existing CUs or install new circuits

We've had contractors here tell us thats a load of dogger, but looking to see if anyone else has any thoughts

 

[littlespark]

H&S CHOA (Covering His Own ---)

He will be following the guidelines of company policy or insurance as suggested above.
Rightly or wrongly, he is doing his job by asking for it.

What do visiting contractors know about your companies own procedures?

Is there a problem getting this 17th guy up to speed and sending him on a course to get 18th 2nd amdmt?

 

[DPG]

H&S CHOA (Covering His Own ---)

He will be following the guidelines of company policy or insurance as suggested above.
Rightly or wrongly, he is doing his job by asking for it.

What do visiting contractors know about your companies own procedures?

Is there a problem getting this 17th guy up to speed and sending him on a course to get 18th 2nd amdmt?

That's the key thing for me - why doesn't the company put him through the 18th course/exam as appropriate? It's hardly a huge investment.

 

[Julie.]

...

H&S Manager was, once upon a time, an electrician in new builds, and is convinced you absolutely must have the 18th before you can either open existing CUs or install new circuits

There is no "Absolutely must have" about holding the cert for the current regulations to do work, only that you are competent.

Company policies aside, as above; H&S guy is "a*** covering " - a suitable pass/certificate is the best way of demonstrating competency though.

 

[Midwest]

Why would a maintenance operative be required to install new circuits? What does your company do @PangEng?

 

[PangEng]

H&S CHOA (Covering His Own ---)

He will be following the guidelines of company policy or insurance as suggested above.
Rightly or wrongly, he is doing his job by asking for it.

What do visiting contractors know about your companies own procedures?

Is there a problem getting this 17th guy up to speed and sending him on a course to get 18th 2nd amdmt?

No absolutely no problem with getting him to do the 18th, just wasn't sure if the definitive "No" from H&S was covering fire or because he wanted his mate in

 

[PangEng]

That's the key thing for me - why doesn't the company put him through the 18th course/exam as appropriate? It's hardly a huge investment.

We are, just wanted to be sure it wasn't an excuse to get his mate in who has done work before and charged us through the nose

 

[PangEng]

Why would a maintenance operative be required to install new circuits? What does your company do @PangEng?

We are a manufacturing facility, huge growth so as a result the building occasionally has a necessity for separate circuits for machinery or to facilitate some other new need

 

[pc1966]

We are a manufacturing facility, huge growth so as a result the building occasionally has a necessity for separate circuits for machinery or to facilitate some other new need

As above, your best option is to send them on an 18th AM2 course and verify they (or better still, your company) as all of the necessary 18th edition AM2 books available.

Ticks all of the H&S and insurance boxes and will work out far cheaper and more reliable having someone in-house you know is competent and who has a vested interest in work being good for long-term use.

 

[littlespark]

or because he wanted his mate in

This sounds like a possibility.....

"well, if he's not 18th, he cant do the work... But i know a guy that can!"

 

[Midwest]

We are a manufacturing facility, huge growth so as a result the building occasionally has a necessity for separate circuits for machinery or to facilitate some other new need

We tend to concentrate on our core roles, get in contractors for this sort of thing. Don't think it makes business sense to employ an 'electrician' for such occasional work.

 

[pc1966]

We tend to concentrate on our core roles, get in contractors for this sort of thing. Don't think it makes business sense to employ an 'electrician' for such occasional work.

If you already employ someone who is 95% of the way to being so, surely it makes sense just to complete the last step (i.e. formally recognised as 18th AM2)?

I guess it might be 'business sense' not to have to pay them any more for having it...

 

[Julie.]

We tend to concentrate on our core roles, get in contractors for this sort of thing. Don't think it makes business sense to employ an 'electrician' for such occasional work.

It very much depends on the work you want your staff to do.

Some "maintenance" are well qualified completely capable of new installation work and/or detail design and modification of electrical, PLCs etc etc.

Other "maintenance" are really just capable of changing the occasional lamp and cleaning stuff.

And of course anywhere between the two

So absolutely nothing wrong with a capable person doing appropriate work.

 

[Eddy Currents]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet regardless if he is competent or is up to date with the latest regs is how are these new circuits being tested and certified once completed? Is there an onsite MFT available for use and is he also competent in using it?
I'm guessing maintenance isn't signed up to a scheme provider and I'm also guessing that the "manufacturing facility" also isn't, so how are the certs going to be done?

 

[timhoward]

I'm guessing maintenance isn't signed up to a scheme provider

Assuming this is nothing to do with domestic properties, that isn't really relevant.

 

[Eddy Currents]

Assuming this is nothing to do with domestic properties, that isn't really relevant.

Are you saying commercial premises don't need certifying?

 

[timhoward]

Are you saying commercial premises don't need certifying?

No. I'm saying being a member of a competent persons scheme is not mandatory to perform testing, inspection, and certification.
The person obviously needs to be skilled in such things. (See 641.6)
But the only thing you have to be in a scheme for is to notify part P work.