2391 is it really fair?

[vaughant]

It is a tough exam yes and often the questions aren't fair,there were several anomalies in our paper (dec 2006 iirc??) that Nigel our instructor was trying to iron out and get certain peoples exams remarked etc but frankly if you did your homework you passed,simple as,same with most exams.
I must admit I studied hard for it and it paid off but as I'd put my own money into it why would I want to fail?
Certainly agree that the real test begins when you go to a clients house and do your stuff,where's that odd resistance coming from?all of a sudden the old bag can't get her corrie on and your up the loft realising some lazy arsed apprentice on his mobile phone has tapped into the light circuit to power the aerial booster box but never thought to mention it on any paperwork!!!
Well I did this back in 2007 and found it very domestically biased,although a course I feel all sparks should take as it certainly explains why things happen rather than just pointlessly replacing components in the hope you'll find the problem.
My worry with it was that it's so focused on terminology and facts and figures etc then even a total non spark could easily pass that with just a lot of cramming and revision,realistically you could find 90% of the answers online and literally learn it parrot fashion.
Ive found a lot of sparks who talk a good show by quoting references from testing procedures etc have no idea in the real world,particularly my field of industrial control,it's not even mentioned in this type of environment as a plus point so I was very surprised when I passed it.
I have to say I was generally shocked at the level of spark on the course,to be fair to Swansea college they wouldnt allow you on the course without proving your electrical background in quite a stern way so I'm pretty sure most of the lads on it were proper sparks not Electrical Trainee (great term!!!) but their fault finding skills were dismal,drawing reading not much better but then I suppose they'd think I was crap on site spending all day wiring up a few sockets (badly).
cant say I've used it much since I got it as the housing market pretty much crashed before I left ford in 2009 so there wasn't much call for it.
Always fancied looking into the commercial/industrial side of testing as mt knowledge of drives/motors/plc etc could help avert any major disasters!!!
Well,maybe.

 

[hermetic]

so what is the minimum point score needed to pass 2391? I passed my ONC in 1971, and that exam would have been a walkover compared with the one I took then!

 

[fingerbuster]

I think it's 80% - or maybe that's the regs exam - I think the "markers" have a little bit of leeway on the 2391 As in; if lots of examinees around the country misunderstood a certain question they can rejig the marking to compensate.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Ditto.
When I did my ONC Building Services electrical the electrical installations paper was, as I can remember, a 1.5 hour exam on all I knew about Farmyards and Petrol Stations.

No guidance Just :
Q1/ Tells about Agricultural installations
Q2/ What do you know about Petrol Stations
3 pages of solid writing later and a rather good pass (not telling you the actual %)

Not that I have ever used the latter since, but useful for ATEX knowledge and applicable for other types of installations

 

[Guest55]

so what is the minimum point score needed to pass 2391? I passed my ONC in 1971, and that exam would have been a walkover compared with the one I took then!

pass mark is around 45% for the written exam , which shows how difficult it is when you only have to get half the questions correct to pass.

 

[Guest55]

Unlike the 17th regs exam which is around 80% , on a multi-choice open book exam.
may as well give the qual away inside a cereal box lol.
;-)

 

[spark 68]

pass mark is around 45% for the written exam , which shows how difficult it is when you only have to get half the questions correct to pass.

I think you are mistaken here Biff, the 45% refers to the amount of candidates who passed, out of the total number whom sat the exam.

It is a floating pass mark, believed to be around the 60% to 80% mark, and you need to get the minimum mark in each section of the paper, eg. you would not pass with say a 95% mark in section A, and a 40% mark in section B.

 

[Guest55]

I think you are mistaken here Biff, the 45% refers to the amount of candidates who passed, out of the total number whom sat the exam.

It is a floating pass mark, believed to be around the 60% to 80% mark, and you need to get the minimum mark in each section of the paper, eg. you would not pass with say a 95% mark in section A, and a 40% mark in section B.

No my friend , pretty sure the wriitten pass mark was just under 50%.
Well it was in '98 , i can remember all the class asking for clarification just before the exam , everyone sweating and looking like they were on death row lol.

- - - Updated - - -

The student pass level was well below 45% at that time as well.

 

[spark 68]

I can only go off what I was told in Dec 2011 when I did mine, and as C&G don't tell what the actual pass mark is, Widdler and Sirkit breaker will no doubt clarify, but Iam sure it is not as low as that.

When I did mine (passed) only 37% of candidates passed in Dec. 2011.

 

[rich.250]

That's when I took mine!! And I passed ok,
Practical is easy, but the theory is daunting!

I think the exam is fair!
If you don't work at it you won't pass....
Simples

 

[Sooz]

Hi all, i've not posted in a while, but wanted to tell you all my experience. I passed all my exams first time in december 2011, studied a lot, but as some of you have said, anyone with half a brain could have passed them. I have to agree that although i have these 'qualifications' and i use the terms loosley, i have absolutely no confidence that i am doing the right thing. I really think these re-training courses are too fast with no real emphasis on diagnosing problems and fault finding. Someone mentioned about just changing components to find a problem, and that's exactly what i've been taught. I feel a bit jipped!

 

[SPARTYKUS]

pass mark is around 45% for the written exam , which shows how difficult it is when you only have to get half the questions correct to pass.

Hello Biff

don't think thats right mate. Best fix bayonets!

 

[hermetic]

80%, well that's about what we needed for a pass with credit. I have just re read my earlier post, and it sounds a bit arrogant, so let me explain. I took my exam after the relevant period of college training, I sat in the class and listened and understood, and asked questions if I didn't, but the City and Guilds system we had then was different in that every trainee completed a year in industry and if your employer thought you were worth it (ie you had managed to keep your job) you started college in your second year of employment. If you failed the first year of college, you were generally out of the industry!, If you could convince your employer that there were valid reasons why you failed, you just might get to do the whole first year course again, and then pass, but on my course, most who failed left and turned up later asking if I wanted fries with my meal. As someone has already mentioned,most of what this exam contains could be passed by memory alone, very few if any of the questions are asked in a way that would require any understanding of the core concepts to answer. I also concur with the OP on the ridiculous use of jargon and TLA's (three letter acronyms, actually they are not acronyms, but that's another post)> You seem to come across more and more of this techno-babble, and it is usually inserted into conversations to make otherwise simple concepts seem complex and non-understandable to "outsiders" thus boosting the ego of the user. You get a lot of this in the computing field, and I have found that some instructors (mainly, it has to be said, Americans) who do not seem to know what some of them actually stand for! Also, they are a movable feast, PFC? prospective fault current or power factor correction? Result? Confusion in an industry where confusion is dangerous. Sufficient to say that I think their use in an exam is ludicrous, and again someone above has mentioned "getting the terminology exactly right" That is a simple memory trick, and if that is the criteria being used to select the senior electrical engineers of tomorrow, god help us all.

 

[hermetic]

I'll just ad to my above post, each year of my three year course had three exams to pass, and you had to pass all three to progress to the next year. We had separate papers in theory and calculations, Electrical engineering principles, and regulations.

 

[Guest55]

Hello Biff

don't think thats right mate. Best fix bayonets!

It was at the time as best as i can recall ,but that was 14 years ago , maybe spark 68 information is correct for exams since 2000.
And i always bring a shotgun to a knife party ;-).

 

[Guest55]

But i'm going to move the discussion onto a new phase if i may.

So , until recently , the 2391 was considered the gold standard for sparks - it sorted the pro's from the chancers.
But what now if Electrical Trainee's can get the qual just by swotting up on past papers and the student pass level is creeping up to 40 odd % ?

Someone mentioned that the new 2396 design qual could now set the bar to the high level formerly occupied by the 2391.
I agree with this sentiment / idea.
Its a million miles away from domestic work in its course content and can't be passed purely by memorising old exam papers.
The course project can only be completed with sound understanding of commercial installation principles and the maths / equations are much more complex , incorporating elements such as adiabatic , mcb pre-arc / energy let through factors , large scale diversity assessments and so on.

Please discuss further those with opinions.............

 

[trev]

I think anything above L3 is really going to start to sort the wheat from the chaff, you can go down the design route or the courses that will eventually lead you to a degree

 

[electrosparks]

What happened to link to dropbox was just about to download and now seems to of disappeared

 

[Silly Sausage]

I might have to do this 2396 (D&V) because the barstewards lost my 2400 project at the time. Got the exam.
Sure I read yesterday on here, someone has taken it already and it's quite harder now :-( plus the cash...

 

[Guest55]

I might have to do this 2396 (D&V) because the barstewards lost my 2400 project at the time. Got the exam.
Sure I read yesterday on here, someone has taken it already and it's quite harder now :-( plus the cash...

My understanding of the 2396 design course from discussions on the IET forum is that its no more difficult than the old 2400 even though the new course is a level 4 qualification.
And further good news is that the inspection and testing elements that were in the the 2400 have been removed.
Also worth a mention is that you can only sign up to do the new 2396 course if you already have both 17th regs and 2391 inspect & test.
But as you mention , its quite expensive at around £700 and not many venues are running the course.
I hope to do it myself this year but its not guarranteed.