467 kwh in one day!!????

[DazedAndConfused]

I have been battling high energy bills for years. My bill averages 2 to 2/12 times what my neighbors use... and they have a mother-in-law house (which I don't). My main question is, could there be some sort of incorrect wiring or voltage 'draw' that could cause these huge numbers? I average around 50 kwh hours per day when not using a/c or heat. I expect a substantial increase when the unit turns on. But 467 kwh in 24 hours!?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I've had 3 a/c companies out, and they all say the units are 'within' specs for load. I just can't believe that. Anyway, check out the attached image of my usage and you will see why I am dazed and confused.

Here are my specs:

• North Texas
• 2500 sq ft all brick House built in 2002
• Caulked windows 3 years ago
• Original ac/furnace units, all electric
• 2 units (2.5 ton and 4 ton)
• 2 45 gallon water heaters
• New smart meter installed 4 months ago. (I was originally thrilled because it seemed like my bill went way down. But then...)
• Power roof vents. These obviously won't be running in 20 degree weather
• New refrigerator, dishwasher and washing machine.
• 3 people in house
• I have a pool, but have had it winterized (no electric at all) the last 2 months

 

[pc1966]

It is possible (80A and 240V for 24h) but whether it is correct or all yours is another matter.

Have you got any means of checking the power draw for your installation?

Sparkies would have a clamp ammeter in thier tool bag, but you can get power meters doing the same (current clamp on the feed cables and remote read out).

 

[James]

Looking at the temperatures you are experiencing,
I can believe the consumption figures.
ac/furnace units can't recover much, if any heat from the atmosphere at that sort of ambient temperature, so they become less efficient, typically they will provide close to a 1:1 ratio of energy in to heat out when the temperature is below about 5 degrees C (41f)
when the temperature is up at around 15 C (59f) they will be working around 3:1 so 3 times as much heat output as electrical input.

The best thing to do, in my opinion would be to have a heat loss survey done,
find out where all that heat is going.
for starters, can you see patches on the roof or outside the property where the ice melts or snow wont settle?
I expect in that sort of climate, good insulation should provide a very fast payback on investment.

 

[DazedAndConfused]

It is possible (80A and 240V for 24h) but whether it is correct or all yours is another matter.

Have you got any means of checking the power draw for your installation?

Sparkies would have a clamp ammeter in thier tool bag, but you can get power meters doing the same (current clamp on the feed cables and remote read out).

Thank you for the reply. I have checked with am ammeter. The 4 ton unit draws 4370 watts and the 2.5 ton unit draws 2024. Even if both ran for 24 hours, that is still only 154 kwh. Now I did test those when the a/c was running. Not the heater.

I have an Emporia Vue being delivered tomorrow to try and determine what is drawing so much power. But my issue is, even if it is the heat/ac units, even gaining a 50% energy efficiency would still have me at 235 kwh/day. I may end up calling an electrician to come out and see if they spot anything.

Looking at the temperatures you are experiencing,
I can believe the consumption figures.
ac/furnace units can't recover much, if any heat from the atmosphere at that sort of ambient temperature, so they become less efficient, typically they will provide close to a 1:1 ratio of energy in to heat out when the temperature is below about 5 degrees C (41f)
when the temperature is up at around 15 C (59f) they will be working around 3:1 so 3 times as much heat output as electrical input.

The best thing to do, in my opinion would be to have a heat loss survey done,
find out where all that heat is going.
for starters, can you see patches on the roof or outside the property where the ice melts or snow wont settle?
I expect in that sort of climate, good insulation should provide a very fast payback on investment.

Thank you for this informative reply. I'll check the roof as soon as another storm hits. I did spend a LOT of time in the attic over the master room suite (where the 2.5 ton unit runs). I sealed every nook and cranny. Reworked the ducting. 16" of insulation. I noticed almost no difference in energy usage (based on smart thermostat). So got a little bummed and never insulated the rest of the house. I'll make that a priority.

 

[James]

ok,
just looked again at your post,
a couple of things stand out.

Power roof vents, are these a big hole with a fan and a rain lid over the top?
if so, any heat that escapes into the loft space WILL rise straight up out of them even if the fan is off.

you have nearly half a tonne of hot water storage, is this in a well insulated container?
it is possible to loose a lot of heat from this, especially if the tanks are located in the loft.

heat rises so the most cost effective insulation is normally to cover the ceiling between the living space and the loft with lots of good quality insulation.

let us know how you get on, it may provide information that helps others in the future.

 

[DazedAndConfused]

ok,
just looked again at your post,
a couple of things stand out.

Power roof vents, are these a big hole with a fan and a rain lid over the top?
if so, any heat that escapes into the loft space WILL rise straight up out of them even if the fan is off.

you have nearly half a tonne of hot water storage, is this in a well insulated container?
it is possible to loose a lot of heat from this, especially if the tanks are located in the loft.

heat rises so the most cost effective insulation is normally to cover the ceiling between the living space and the loft with lots of good quality insulation.

let us know how you get on, it may provide information that helps others in the future.

You are correct on the Power Roof Vents being big holes with a fan and rain lid over them. And I agree that is a big heat loss. But all my neighbors have the same vents... again, with half my energy usage. That's what bothers me. All the people I talk to have the same things going on (18 year old a/c units, all electric energy, power roof vents, etc.) I seem to be the only one with the huge bills.

The water heaters are in the attic. Both have insulation blankets. I will be sure to check them with the Vue when it gets here tomorrow.

Thank you again for the help! I will update when/if I find the cause(s).

 

[pc1966]

If you can get a clamp meter, and are suitably knowledgable to use one safely, you can try clamping each of the circuits in your panel to find out what is taking the power.

It is probably just heating, given the way your plot shows the bill rising as the temperature falls, but it is worth finding out what else takes much power or even if there is a fault somewhere dumping power unexpectedly in to the ground or a failed buried cable.

With that sort of levels of power use it would have to be a big buried cable or smoke would be apparent!

 

[James]

I can do an energy survey for you, costs are as follows.
Travel at your cost, expect 2 to 4k usd
food and lodgings for 7 days expect 2k
survey and write report, free of charge
10 days quarantine on my return just under 4k
whole thing will take around a month by the time i have spent weeks in quarantine at each end and a week surveying, so labour will be charged at $600 per day for 30 days, total $18k
so all in all, costs would be in the region of 26,000 to 30,000 USD

I think the price would be reasonable if you happen to be a Texas oil baron??

 

[pc1966]

I have only been in Texas once, about 25 years ago to Austin for a friend's wedding. Was warm and really quite nice, not as dry/hot as I thought it would be from the movies! But agree, its quite a cost to get there and back just now.

 

[DazedAndConfused]

I can do an energy survey for you, costs are as follows.
Travel at your cost, expect 2 to 4k usd
food and lodgings for 7 days expect 2k
survey and write report, free of charge
10 days quarantine on my return just under 4k
whole thing will take around a month by the time i have spent weeks in quarantine at each end and a week surveying, so labour will be charged at $600 per day for 30 days, total $18k
so all in all, costs would be in the region of 26,000 to 30,000 USD

I think the price would be reasonable if you happen to be a Texas oil baron??

I actually had a piece of property with an oil lease that hit oil three months after I moved. And wouldn't you know it, my real estate agent had transferred my oil lease to the new owners (even though we told her several times we were not letting go of the lease). I literally had to send the new owners the royalty checks I started receiving. That real estate agent is fired!

Anyway, I wish you were in Texas. I'm having trouble finding competent help in my area. I'm a bit out in the boonies.

 

[DazedAndConfused]

I have only been in Texas once, about 25 years ago to Austin for a friend's wedding. Was warm and really quite nice, not as dry/hot as I thought it would be from the movies! But agree, its quite a cost to get there and back just now.

You must have been here the one day it didn't hit 105 degrees. I will say it is typically pretty dry, thank goodness.

And Austin has changed a LOT recently. Looks more like California every day.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

My main question is, could there be some sort of incorrect wiring or voltage 'draw' that could cause these huge numbers?

Not really. As mentioned above by @pc1966, if energy is genuinely being consumed from the supply, it has to be going somewhere and ultimately turning into heat. Any wiring defect dissipating many kilowatts or tens of kilowatts of heat would tend to destroy itself completely within seconds or minutes. Any incorrect wiring that caused excess power to be delivered to appliances, such as 240V where there should be 120V, would rapidly kill the appliances.

So either the meter is registering energy that is not being used (possible but unlikely, and easy to confirm), or it is being consumed by legitimate appliance loads but not achieving useful results for you

 

[ipf]

Seems you're lucky not to have lost your supply altogether, with the icy conditions in Austin at present.

You should have 'loaded up the truck and moved to Beverley.....Hills, that is'