A little bit of info needed please (starting out)

[bf2k]

Hi all. I was wondering if some of you could possible give me a but if advice. I've been asked if I want to do inspections and any repair work for a landlord on his houses he rents out and any future houses he buys, in my own time at evenings & weekends. Perfect type of work but I've had to turn the work down for the minute because I've been lead to believe that I would have to be part of a Competent Persons Scheme (NICEIC, etc) to be able to do the inspections (and obviously any notifiable repair work). Is this true? :confused5:

I passed my domestic installers qualifications last September (C&G 2377, 2382, 2393 & EAL Level 2 Part P for domestic installers) through New Career Skills - not a place I would recommend in a hurry. Long story short why I choice this type of course. I already did a lot of the theory work prior to taking this course in my Engineering HND qualifications a good few years ago, so already had a good background knowledge of electrical systems. I was made redundant as a design engineer and went for additional strings to my bow to open up job prospects (lucky a friend set up his own design house so I didn't have to wait that long to get back into work). I know now it was probably not the best route to take but I'm here now so it's time to start paying back the £6k it cost to do this course.

I've undertaken quiet a good number of minor works jobs, mainly for friends & family and then their friends & family. I've also done 3 notifiable jobs (2 complete re-wires and one feed to an outhouse). I (or should I say the customer) paid the extortionate building control fees of £175 for the work to be inspected and passed no problem. I've also done a bit of "experience" work with an electrician we used at work who was semi-retired. I know I'll have to join one of these schemes soon but I wanted to get a bit more experience under my belt and be in a position where I could do this as a full time job as well as looking at possibly of going for the NVQ quantification.

 

[brucelee]

Try Xs training for the NVQ if your quick as its all changing but i beleive they are still delivering the C&G 2356 lv3 but you would need some work on commercial or Industrial or agricultural as well as domestic to cover all the criteria
Join a scheme then you can sign your own work off expensive but the only route to being able to carry out your own work such as rewires and sign off without building control having to be notified first

 

[Richard Burns]

To complete EICRs you do not need to part of a scheme, just competent at inspections. However some companies do insist that you are part of a registered scheme, particularly insurance companies, but generally it is not necessary.

If you have paid £525 on notification already then you could have joined a scheme for that cost and notified the three jobs so it would (unfortunately) be worth joining a scheme for self notification, but not for EICRs.

 

[bf2k]

...

If you have paid £525 on notification already then you could have joined a scheme for that cost and notified the three jobs so it would (unfortunately) be worth joining a scheme for self notification, but not for EICRs.

With hindsight you're right but I didn't know I was going to be asked to do these jobs (especially so soon after qualifying - the family are trusting fools )

But thank you for clarifying that I don't need to be part of a scheme to carry out the landlord checks. Hopefully I can do this, get a little more experience and then look at a scheme. I don't see me getting enough work at the moment to be able to justify the fees (the past jobs asides) because it's not my full time job...yet.

Thanks for your advice

 

[bf2k]

I've spoken with the landlord who is pleased he can help me out with a bit of work. Unfortunately the property he needed inspecting needed doing urgently (tenant moving in on Saturday) so he had to sub that work out to someone else. However, he's got something else for me but I'm a little wary based on his sketchy description. He says someone has added a few extra lights and a fan to the upstairs circuit in another property he has and wants to make sure they have been put in correctly. I asked who did the works (because the fan in the bathroom should have been notifiable work) but he doesn't know, but it wasn't an electrician he's certain of that. I said I should be able to help him out but I'd have to test the whole circuit. Is this right?

I realise these may be obvious questions but its that experience of different scenarios I don't have (but I never will unless I do them in the first place ) and want to make sure I'm doing the right thing in the first place. I've found this is one of the major problems with places like New Career Skills. They can show you how to install, terminate correctly and neatly on a perfectly laid out bay but they don't prepare you for the "real world" of domestic installations when a cowboy thought he could wire a house.

 

[Richard Burns]

You sound like you are getting out of your depth here, just be very sure you know what you are doing in each case and do not get taken for a ride.

If someone else has installed electrical equipment without certificates or notification then the only paperwork you can legally provide is by an EICR (this can be just on that circuit) that covers the installation that has been done and the main supply, earthing and bonding. This will not necessarily confirm that the install has been done correctly because you will not be able to see everything.

You could do a visual inspection but it will not confirm anything really.

Do not get caught into signing off someone else's work (or notifying it).

Also do not provide any paperwork stating that this is a correct and safe install, just do the test and inspection for a periodic fill out the EICR and get paid.

 

[Spudnik]

May I also suggest that you get suitable insurance if you plan on doing EICR's.

 

[bf2k]

Thank you Richard. I won't be doing any notifications of any kind, basically I can't if I'm not signed up with a scheme (and it's too late to notify BC). I wouldn't say I'm out of my depth but like I said I want to make sure and learn the correct way basically. I've a feeling I'll find things whilst looking round that will end up in me recommending test and inspect.

If I'm not sure or unhappy taking on the work I'll walk away or get help on site.

Whilst I've a thread open mentioning New Career Skills, has anyone else had dealings with them? If so what do people think of them?

Cheers Andy

 

[Richard Burns]

T
Whilst I've a thread open mentioning New Career Skills, has anyone else had dealings with them? If so what do people think of them?

Cheers Andy

Search the forum for that lots of posts available!!

 

[bf2k]

Jason, it is something I've been making enquiries into. AXA seem to be the cheapest (£75 roughly a year for just Public Liability). Do you guys have both Public Liability & Professional Indemnity?

 

[lauriehurman]

Hi Andy

I may not have understood you correctly but is not hte problem that you don't have a qualification in "Inspection & Testing"?
I think you need C&G 2392 (I don't know what 2393 is). Then building control will see you as a competent person and you won't have to pay them to inspect your work (you still have to notify them).

Laurie

 

[lauriehurman]

There's a big difference between "public liability" which you need, and "professional indemnity" which you do not.
I'm no expert on insurance.
Laurie

 

[Welchyboy1]

For testing and inspection work you need professional indemnity, for general installation work you need public liability

completing EICR's is not a job for a novice, you have to know the regs very well
also old and new wiring systems and methods back to front!, and to be able to 'read' and installation properly, and that only comes with alot of experience from installing and discovering other peoples lash ups! no course will teach you this!

the 2392 will teach you how to read a test meter and what to put in a certain box on a certificate, but its about knowing 'WHY' not 'HOW' on an EICR for it to be worth anything!

I understand that you have an engineering background which is a much bigger step up than most but why dont you get someone to under take the testing work who really knows his stuff and shadow him, you will learn alot more and the learning curve will not be half as steep as tinkering at it yourself

also your signing a legal document at the end which at worst case could land you in the brown stuff

 

[mselect]

Hi Andy

I may not have understood you correctly but is not hte problem that you don't have a qualification in "Inspection & Testing"?
I think you need C&G 2392 (I don't know what 2393 is). Then building control will see you as a competent person and you won't have to pay them to inspect your work (you still have to notify them).Laurie

2393 is the City and Guilds Qual for Building Regulations......Soon to change to 2397.

 

[bf2k]

Hi Andy

I may not have understood you correctly but is not hte problem that you don't have a qualification in "Inspection & Testing"?
I think you need C&G 2392 (I don't know what 2393 is). Then building control will see you as a competent person and you won't have to pay them to inspect your work (you still have to notify them).

Laurie

I've done the 2392 sorry, missed listing that. That was an add on (week 5) to the course shockingly. Thanks for the insurance advice as well. I'm sorting something out through a local broker for a similar price above with the indemnity insurance included. I looked on the NICEIC website and they want you to have both so I might as well apply for them both now.

Welchyboy1

"completing EICR's is not a job for a novice, you have to know the regs very well"

I understand what you mean. I do have an old lad I can fall back on (he used to do bits and pieces for us at work) but is all but retired now. I've done quite a bit with him already on the test & inspecting side when I was practicing for my exams so if I come across something which totally baffles me (which I have in the past) I could call upon him.

 

[bf2k]

Hi

A little update on how I went on (for those who care )

It was something of a minor disaster of an installation really. The CU was buried behind an old gas boiler (which had been decommissioned) with about 20mm space between the side of the boiler & the front of the fuse carrier. Thus I wasn't able to actually isolate the system :uhoh2:. So I could only do the visualisation checks. I'm recommending that the boiler is removed and then I'll go back and do a full test on the whole installation. I suspect it will fail because I have doubts that there is adequate cpc on the lighting circuit.

I'm in the middle of writing out the report (the little of it I can) which I can publish on here if anyone wants to have a look to see if I have missed anything or made a glaring mistake.

Thanks for your help so far. Cheers Andy

 

[bf2k]

View attachment EICR-ASHAR-0001 (for online).pdf

As promised, the finished report (again for those who care )

Like I said I couldn't do an awful lot with the system seeing how I could isolate it.

 

[Welchyboy1]

What absolute twonk but that boiler right in front of the fuse box, they could of at least got it moved first

What happens when a fuse blows??




Cert looks ok so far(even though your unable to do most of it)


Few Small observations; i would think that the earthing system is either a tncs or tns rather than a tnc


also i personally would of coded the cu problem a C2 rather than C1

 

[bf2k]

What absolute twonk but that boiler right in front of the fuse box, they could of at least got it moved first

What happens when a fuse blows??

My point exactly to the house owner

Cert looks ok so far(even though your unable to do most of it)


Few Small observations; i would think that the earthing system is either a tncs or tns rather than a tnc


also i personally would of coded the cu problem a C2 rather than C1

I only put it as C1 because I didn't know where a gas supply was still going to the boiler and because you couldn't get to the fuse carriers. In case of emergency I don't know how you would isolate the supply. I've submitted the report to the guy who asked me to do it and he's forward it onto a housing association. I said I need the boiler moving then I can test and recommended a test of the whole installation. He's asking to go one further and go for a full re-wire...typical builder

Thanks for your comments Welchyboy