Advice please, moving to the UK.

[Guest77]

And no other party produces this propaganda you talk of

Of course, the ---- party did, and they did it equally as well as the Tory party.

 

[UNG]

A great prime minister IMO

I believe he was acclaimed as the best Tory prime minister we never had

In France there are no translations, no translators, they do not want incomers and make them feel unwanted!

You forgot they banned the Burka as well

People banging on about benefit tourism usually don't realise that there are EU countries which have far more generous rates of out of work benefits and far more serious problems with it than we do.

Could you name a few and how long you have to be resident to make a claim

No, let's get the problem into it's proper perspective and not fall for lies told to us by so called politicians who's only answer is to look for a convenient scapegoat.
If I fail it isn't because of Yarrick and Piotr coming here from Poland. It isn't because of Vlad from Romania.
It's because I didn't try hard enough.

You are one of the many that "wouldn't work for that rate" in reply to some of the jobs posted on here so if it isn't the migrants pushing the rates down because of surplus and cheap labour who is it and don't use that old chestnut of the employers are doing it

Yes, of course. Vote for the main peddler of scapegoats. A single issue party who's only answer to every problem is to blame the EU.
Sorry mate, it's a bit more complicated than that. Leaving the EU will cost this country 4 million jobs, trading with the EU will mean that we still have to comply with the legislation passed by them so what benefit will we get from leaving it?

It's a bit like the arguments / debates closer to home as September comes nearer and the Scottish referendum looms the only difference is neither country will be bankrupt overnight unlike the EU. I'm fairly sure that a £385 million ish weekly black hole in the EU accounts will cause a reasonably instant problem within the rest of the EU, be interest to see how the Euro fares on the currency markets if it happens

It pees me off just as much mate but cutting off our nose to spite our face isn't the answer. Maybe Kent has it worse because it's closer to Sangatte but even with leaving the EU we'll still have people trying and succeeding in their attempts to get here.

But we won't be strangled by EU law and the stupidity of the EU court of human rights and we can send them back

 

[trev]

I believe he was acclaimed as the best Tory prime minister we never had



You forgot they banned the Burka as well



Could you name a few and how long you have to be resident to make a claim
Republic of Ireland, 200 euros pw, no idea how long you have to be resident there to claim. Maybe Eoin can help out there.


You are one of the many that "wouldn't work for that rate" in reply to some of the jobs posted on here so if it isn't the migrants pushing the rates down because of surplus and cheap labour who is it and don't use that old chestnut of the employers are doing it
Yes I am one of those who would not work for that rate. Wages have been under downward pressure because of the financial crisis. It is employers who are primarily responsible for this because they can get cheap/free labour





But we won't be strangled by EU law and the stupidity of the EU court of human rights and we can send them back

The stupidity of the EU court of human rights which was successfully campaigned for by none other than Winston Spencer Churchill and protects all of us from government excesses. Yes it's sometimes abused but then again, it's not the only legal process which is abused/misused.
See my other responses in italics.

 

[Guest77]

I believe he was acclaimed as the best Tory prime minister we never had



You forgot they banned the Burka as well



Could you name a few and how long you have to be resident to make a claim



You are one of the many that "wouldn't work for that rate" in reply to some of the jobs posted on here so if it isn't the migrants pushing the rates down because of surplus and cheap labour who is it and don't use that old chestnut of the employers are doing it



It's a bit like the arguments / debates closer to home as September comes nearer and the Scottish referendum looms the only difference is neither country will be bankrupt overnight unlike the EU. I'm fairly sure that a £385 million ish weekly black hole in the EU accounts will cause a reasonably instant problem within the rest of the EU, be interest to see how the Euro fares on the currency markets if it happens



But we won't be strangled by EU law and the stupidity of the EU court of human rights and we can send them back

Yes probably true lol

 

[UNG]

What are we going to do with an extra 4 million people on the dole though?

How can you be certain of this on what EU supporting propaganda is this based

Lots of non EU companies operate here because of the advantages it gives them in trade with the EU. That's where the first jobs will go. Then you have those in the supply chain to those foreign companies, after that will be the jobs which depend on the spending power of those primary and secondary jobs that will be lost.
The EU members will be falling over themselves to tempt those foreign companies to ditch their UK bases and regain the advantageous trade status with the remaining members

It would take many years for it to happen and cost those companies a fortune to relocate and train staff it would probably need funding of some sort from a bankrupt EU or a non existent EU

I don't trust either of them. You may not agree but many of these foreign companies have already said they'll up sticks if we pull out. Is it worth it? I wouldn't like to call their bluff because their only loyalty is to their shareholders via their bottom line.

A lot of companies are of the belief the EU will still exist there are countries who are not in the EU who trade into the EU so why can't the UK

Also another British person asked a pole how could he afford to pay insurance on his newish merc
Ha my insurance is £50 a year fully comp
Oh I will have some of that replied my co worker
No it's for poles only
I will phone Poland and get insured
No only poles
And this pole could get anything we wanted
Red diesel tools materials all cheaper than I can get it

A mate's wife came across a Polish shop that had a notice saying no English on the door discrimination at it's best

How many people have died because of the new colours (supposed to make it easier to help other nations work here )

Isn't that why we RCD everything these days

 

[trev]

How can you be certain of this on what EU supporting propaganda is this based

Not based on EU propaganda at all mate, Nissan and many others have said they're gone if we pull out. Some 15,000 people work there. There is a 1:4 ratio in their supply chain so there's 60,000 jobs gone in the companies that supply them. Using the same ratio gives us 240,000 tertiary jobs dependent on the spending power of those.
315,000 jobs in the North East alone.



It would take many years for it to happen and cost those companies a fortune to relocate and train staff it would probably need funding of some sort from a bankrupt EU or a non existent EU

It would also take 2 years for us to withdraw from the EU, plenty of time for those companies to negotiate with other countries. These companies have vast cash reserves so I don't think relocation would be that much of a problem. Also remember, they came here because of funding from a near bankrupt UK at the time. We found the cash, so would Germany or France if it was going to substantially benefit their employment figures

A lot of companies are of the belief the EU will still exist there are countries who are not in the EU who trade into the EU so why can't the UK
Yes there are countries who trade with the EU without membership of it however they are forced to comply with existing and future EU legislation regarding the goods they ship there so the cost to business is still high


A mate's wife came across a Polish shop that had a notice saying no English on the door discrimination at it's best
More a matter for the police I'd say, if your mate's wife thinks a crime is being committed then she should report it. Things like this happen because they are allowed to (although I have heard exactly the same story in the North East. It was supposedly a shop in the west end of Newcastle so perhaps it's another urban myth. Maybe there's a photo of the shop and the sign somewhere. I'll take a look on the net for it)



Isn't that why we RCD everything these days

My replies in bold.

 

[UNG]

Farage might be a lot of things and one of them is definately popular. He is talking the talk people want to hear and is voicing what many people here are worried about. I remember we joined a "Common Market" which was based just on that free trade, access to European markets etc. That has now morphed into the "United States of Europe" and all the evils that entail. Free movement of labour is just one part of it which though maybe concerning for me not as concerning as our courts are now daily overturned by the European ones. Policies are made in Europe with mainly an agenda that befits Germany and countries like France if they don't like tge policies ignore them. Perhaps I'm a throw back but I want our Parliment to run our country

They didn't tell us the free trade was taking in part of their population

Were you there when this conversation went on? Because to me it sounds like yet another urban myth mate.
You know, like the one that surfaces regularly about "My mate knows a bloke who lives next door to an asylum seeker. His brother lives x number of miles away and the government gave him a car and free fuel and insurance so he could go and visit"
If you heard it I'd suggest that this Polish bloke was taking the mick, all I'm picking up is classic victim mentality "they've got it so much easier than we have" "they get everything handed to them on a silver plate" etc etc
Like Eoin said in #129, dole/jsa is 200euros a week in the Republic of Ireland, which idiot is going to come here for £70?

Trev you have a very NIMBY attitude and dismiss a lot of what is happening as urban myth to use a phrase you used in this thread "WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE" it's real and it is happening

Look, I'm not saying that no one comes here for a free ride because we all know that some do BUT we have a lot of our own population, born and bred here, that will neither work nor want. Politicians like Farage are giving people scapegoats and telling them that the problems of the country are all down to those nasty immigrants freeloading and stealing our women and raping our jobs (or something like that)
All I'm saying is wake up and smell the coffee, the problems caused by immigration are miniscule when you consider the profligate way our elected representatives have allowed big business to ride roughshod over us all. It was unregulated banking that caused the financial crisis, not Abdul hiding in a lorry and working in a takeaway for less than minimum wage.

Labour rode the wave of the boom and turned a blind eye to the massive growth in the financial sector, this was coupled with a perceived skills shortage to continue to fuel the boom and building projects were staffed with cheap imported labour that lived "local" to the site and therefore met the requirements on some projects that wanted a high %age of local labour employed. Why should anybody pay more than they have to during the 80's there was big bucks to be had because of the lack of trades and people had to pay the going rate to get the job done it's swung the other way now because of a party that supposedly supports the working man, Milliband, Balls etc in their sharp suits who don't know what a proper days work is are no better than any other parties politicians

It's business that's forcing down wages and using people on the dole to fill jobs for free that they should be paying people to do. It's MPs that are making US pay to heat their bloody stables and pay for their £39 breakfasts, £10 burgers, fresh underwear when they should have had the sense to pack a pair and more champagne than you'd need to float an aircraft carrier. It's politicians who have taken us into illegal conflicts which have cost us billions of pounds and hundreds of lives of our armed forces (not to mention hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths)
Don't blame the people they want you to blame, look behind their rhetoric and ask why.

Suppose it depends on which mushroom farm you are on what views you take

Of course, the ---- party did, and they did it equally as well as the Tory party.

And any other political party you care to mention

 

[trev]

A federal europe was always the big picture, Heath either did not know this or he didn't tell the UK population. Either way he was wrong.

To say I have a nimby attitude is laughable, I've acknowledged that some problems are caused by immigration but all I'm pointing out is that some people here are prepared to accept the lie sold to us by so called politicians that if we withdraw from Europe everything will be fine and dandy because it won't. Throughout history, when times get tough, politicians have looked for a scapegoat. Farage, Griffin and most of the others are no different, it's only the scapegoats who change.
We've all heard these urban myths and it's always "My mate knows someone who..." or "one of my neighbours cousins....." or "someone was telling me he read about..." There's never any direct experience, I've never come across anyone who has witnessed one of these conversations themselves and I'm sure you haven't either.
It was the tories who deregulated the banking sector. Milliband and his mates are just tory lite as far as I'm concerned.
The bit about the mushroom farm I'm not going to lower myself to respond to other than to say it isn't me who is swallowing the BS fed to them by politicians who only serve their own narrow interests.

 

[UNG]

Could you name a few and how long you have to be resident to make a claim
Republic of Ireland, 200 euros pw, no idea how long you have to be resident there to claim. Maybe Eoin can help out there.

So that will be one although is that all that can be claimed while out of work in Ireland

Yes I am one of those who would not work for that rate. Wages have been under downward pressure because of the financial crisis. It is employers who are primarily responsible for this because they can get cheap/free labour

Wage rates were under pressure before the financial crisis hit as we were being swamped by migrants to fill the Labour government's perceived labour shortage

The stupidity of the EU court of human rights which was successfully campaigned for by none other than Winston Spencer Churchill and protects all of us from government excesses. Yes it's sometimes abused but then again, it's not the only legal process which is abused/misused.
See my other responses in italics.

But only fully signed up to by none other than Tony Blair

 

[Diddy]

In or out of the EU hmmm. Well living in Scotland all I will say on the matter is I really wish this in/out referendum was held before the Scotland in/out UK referendum as the result of the EU referendum would greatly influence my thinking on the Scottish one. Scotland may be seen as "mad" on thinking about leaving the UK......but even they/we know that the future lies within the EU not on the outside looking in.
Actually I hope 1 Scotland leaves the UK and 2. RUK leaves the EU....then WE can have the UK's relinquished membership and maybe we could persuade nissan ect to just hope over the hadrians wall and set up here with us.....Be some work in rebuilding that wall too as you lot wouldn't be entitled to the "freedom" of movement that Farage and his chums so hate.

 

[UNG]

Not based on EU propaganda at all mate, Nissan and many others have said they're gone if we pull out. Some 15,000 people work there. There is a 1:4 ratio in their supply chain so there's 60,000 jobs gone in the companies that supply them. Using the same ratio gives us 240,000 tertiary jobs dependent on the spending power of those.
315,000 jobs in the North East alone.

So all Nissan's built in the UK are 100% UK sourced from a UK supply chain

It would also take 2 years for us to withdraw from the EU, plenty of time for those companies to negotiate with other countries. These companies have vast cash reserves so I don't think relocation would be that much of a problem.

Is this an absolute fact if this was the case I don't think there would be as much inter company collaboration as they try to spread development and manufacturing costs

Also remember, they came here because of funding from a near bankrupt UK at the time. We found the cash, so would Germany or France if it was going to substantially benefit their employment figures

So you agree the EU would cease to exist.

Yes there are countries who trade with the EU without membership of it however they are forced to comply with existing and future EU legislation regarding the goods they ship there so the cost to business is still high

See above

More a matter for the police I'd say, if your mate's wife thinks a crime is being committed then she should report it. Things like this happen because they are allowed to (although I have heard exactly the same story in the North East. It was supposedly a shop in the west end of Newcastle so perhaps it's another urban myth. Maybe there's a photo of the shop and the sign somewhere. I'll take a look on the net for it)

What law have they broken?

 

[UNG]

In or out of the EU hmmm. Well living in Scotland all I will say on the matter is I really wish this in/out referendum was held before the Scotland in/out UK referendum as the result of the EU referendum would greatly influence my thinking on the Scottish one. Scotland may be seen as "mad" on thinking about leaving the UK......but even they/we know that the future lies within the EU not on the outside looking in.
Actually I hope 1 Scotland leaves the UK and 2. RUK leaves the EU....then WE can have the UK's relinquished membership and maybe we could persuade nissan ect to just hope over the hadrians wall and set up here with us.....Be some work in rebuilding that wall too as you lot wouldn't be entitled to the "freedom" of movement that Farage and his chums so hate.

I don't think it quite works like that and if it did would Scotland want to give the EU £385 million a week to plug the financial hole left by the UK

 

[Diddy]

I don't think it quite works like that and if it did would Scotland want to give the EU £385 million a week to plug the financial hole left by the UK

Does the EU not give some of this cash back to the UK through grants and subsidies ? Even if it is a net loss of £385m as you state I would not have thought that a smaller country such as Scotland would be required to match the current UK fees.

 

[dingledong]

Ok let's say 200 million !!! You ain't got five Bob yes build your wall high ban English people then we repatriate all the Scots ,give us a bit of space
Salmond is nuts Scotland cannot survive on its own
Plus college is free in Scotland I think well that won't last long you will have every young pounce in Europe heading there getting there exams and leaving

 

[trev]

So that will be one although is that all that can be claimed while out of work in Ireland
I have no idea not being Irish, Germany also has a higher rate of dole



Wage rates were under pressure before the financial crisis hit as we were being swamped by migrants to fill the Labour government's perceived labour shortage. Under the last Labour government I was subbing for about £3 more ph than I am at present



But only fully signed up to by none other than Tony Blair

Bull. Who signed the Maastricht treaty, who signed us up for the disaster that was the ERM

 

[trev]

So all Nissan's built in the UK are 100% UK sourced from a UK supply chain
Don't try to put words in my mouth. I'm talking about jobs at Nissan's UK base and the UK jobs that depend on it and you know that. I have no idea how many foreign jobs depend on the Sunderland plant's orders and frankly I don't care.


Is this an absolute fact if this was the case I don't think there would be as much inter company collaboration as they try to spread development and manufacturing costs
Companies collaborate all the time, why should Nissan be any different. Collaboration and cost spreading doesn't mean anything other than they do it because they can and it's commercially viable for them to do it



So you agree the EU would cease to exist.
No I don't, the UK leaving would cause problems but they'd most likely get over them



See above



What law have they broken?

Several anti discrimination laws.

 

[Guest77]

Bull. Who signed the Maastricht treaty, who signed us up for the disaster that was the ERM

Yes and Ted Heath got us into it in the first place.

 

[trev]

Yes and Ted Heath got us into it in the first place.

Exactly, the vast majority of the BS we've been fed over the years has been tory BS.
Words cannot express how much I despise them.

 

[Guest77]

Exactly, the vast majority of the BS we've been fed over the years has been tory BS.
Words cannot express how much I despise them.

Yes I agree, we have Rupert Murdoch who runs several media outlets and who is a huge Conservative supporter just one example of how the tories get their message out, How David cameron managed to sell off the post office without anyone knowing about it until it was too late is still beyond me. The fact it was sold for 3 billion under it's value another shock and yet it was hardly mentioned in the news, also a month after selling the post office thousands were laid off, again no mention of it in the news, yet Ed milliband not being able to eat a bacon sandwich properly was all over the press for 2 days, propaganda, end of.

 

[UNG]

Bull. Who signed the Maastricht treaty, who signed us up for the disaster that was the ERM

Until Blair signed on the dotted line to the full human rights act in 1997 we still had the death penalty for some crimes which was only finally abolished in 1998