Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / sealed

[Gavin A]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

cement, butyle mastic, CT1, proper long life outdoor rated silicon... anything along those lines really, just get the surface clean first.

I'd think there is a potential that this is the cause, and it could have taken this long to show up if the water table has risen / there's been a particularly wet period, or a leaking drain etc.

Often supposedly solid walls actually have a narrow cavity / rubble filled cavity before internal blockwork / cinder block, and any water can run along the cavity, so it's possible that water entering in one place can cause issues further down the wall.

Best to rule it out anyway for the sake of half an hours digging and a couple of quid's worth of sealant.

I'd still rate it as far more likely that the damp is actually down to condensation on a cold spot on the wall if it's not from a leaking drainpipe etc, as even if it did leak in in that way during exceptional rain, I doubt it's going to do it often enough to end up causing damp internally.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

DUPLICATED POST DELETED


I am having problems typing my messages on the Forum - this somehow posted exactly the same reply to Tidy Max as I had submitted some time ago.

I cannot type correctly at present - it is as if my Keyboard keys are only working intermitantly - and randomly intermitantly !

I will try and answer a couple of more replies but if I `Disappear` Tonight it will be because of this Typing problem.

Thanks to all for their responses - including the messages that contain `Digs` at my unusual / incorrect use of some punctuation marks !

Regards,


Chris

I'm clutching at straws here Chris, but is this any good? Waterproofing & Tanking Products - Damp, Waterproofing, Woodworm, Timber Treatment, Wood Preservative

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Hi Chris !

My reply to you was not based on "Technical Knowledge" - it was based on Geordie instinct and common sense.

We're not talking about an industrial installation or even a commercial installation here are we so the current being drawn through the cable will be relatively light - even with the electric cooker working so I doubt if the cable will get anywhere near warm and if it does, surely the remainder of the cable that isn't covered by the foam will dissipate the little bit of warmth generated. It isn't all going to sit in that same spot all day is it? If you somehow manage to put a lump of hot water in the middy of a 3 meter length of 15mm pipe does that heat stay in that one place - or does it spread towards each end of the pipe reducing the temperature as it goes?

OK - I admit that in the case of the pipe it will progressively cool while the cable won't, because it has electricery passing through it, but at the same time I really don't think you're going to get things all that hot in a domestic situation. A factory or large warehouse situation where you're pulling lots of amps through the thing I think could be a different kettle of horses

NOT that it matters, but are you sure these cables are armoured (S W A) and not Split Concentric which look similar but don't have the Steel Wire Armour built into them?

If you wanted to sleeve this BTW, how about a piece of plastic waste ( 40mm maybe? ) split along it's length so you can open it enough to spring it over the cables? I'm guessing as I can't see the job from here !! :sailor:

"Hello Geordie Spark",

Thanks very much for your message and the details about the dissipation of any Heat that might ever be generated on a Armoured cable that has Expanded Foam around it.

Regarding trying to Sleeve these cables - Because of the way that the cables have been bent through the `Slotted Hole` it is not possible to reto-fit anything like a split pipe around them.

Not only are they bent at about a 135 degree angle downwards through the Slot / Hole but one is on top of the other as they penetrate into the Building.

The `Slotted Hole` was cut into the Brickwork at about a 135 degree angle - with only the penetration Hole to inside being horizontal.


I am calling the cables `Armoured` as they are Black and from memory about 30mm in diameter - You could be correct that they are some other type of cable - but they are clipped to the outside of the Building so I THOUGHT they would have to be Armoured [?]


When they were installed the Meters / Main Fuses were connected to them by the Electricity Suppliers Electricians so they were the correct cables for that outside location.


Thanks for your suggestions - as always I appreciate your Help and Advice.

Regards,


Chris

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

"Hello Geordie Spark",

Thanks very much for your message and the details about the dissipation of any Heat that might ever be generated on a Armoured cable that has Expanded Foam around it.

Regarding trying to Sleeve these cables - Because of the way that the cables have been bent through the `Slotted Hole` it is not possible to reto-fit anything like a split pipe around them.

Not only are they bent at about a 135 degree angle downwards through the Slot / Hole but one is on top of the other as they penetrate into the Building.

I am calling the cables `Armoured` as they are Black and from memory about 30mm in diameter - You could be correct that they are some other type of cable - but they are clipped to the outside of the Building so I THOUGHT they would have to be Armoured [?]


When they were installed the Meters / Main Fuses were connected to them by the Electricity Suppliers Electricians so they were the correct cables for that outside location.


Thanks for your suggestions - as always I appreciate your Help and Advice.

Regards,


Chris

No problem Chris.

Bloody Hell though ... those cables are a lot bigger than I was thinking - I was thinking of the one that comes into my house which is like a bit of 15mm Speedfit pipe !!

If they are as big as you say, it throws most of what I have said straight out of the window.

Anyway, It was good to meet up with you again.

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

I'm clutching at straws here Chris, but is this any good? Waterproofing & Tanking Products - Damp, Waterproofing, Woodworm, Timber Treatment, Wood Preservative

"Hello again Geordie Spark",

I don`t think that there would be too much of a problem getting Waterproof Cement - the Damp Proofing Contractor should be able to either supply this or recommend what to buy - BUT I needed to KNOW that this would not be corrosive to the Cable sheathing and would adhere to the sheathing itself before I can advise my Friend correctly

I felt that it would not be appropriate to apply Tape around the Cables where a Cement product would be contacting them as this would be a possible Water ingress point - ?


Thanks again.

Regards,

Chris

 

[overskilled]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Split Concentric cabling possibly? Black like armoured and common in DNO use.....even where sparks would normally be required to use SWA...

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

"Hello again Geordie Spark",

I don`t think that there would be too much of a problem getting Waterproof Cement - the Damp Proofing Contractor should be able to either supply this or recommend what to buy - BUT I needed to KNOW that this would not be corrosive to the Cable sheathing and would adhere to the sheathing itself before I can advise my Friend correctly

I felt that it would not be appropriate to apply Tape around the Cables where a Cement product would be contacting them as this would be a possible Water ingress point - ?


Thanks again.

Regards,

Chris

And this seems to be the stumbling block - none of us seem to be able to give a definitive answer !!!

I understand your frustration.

 

[overskilled]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Well from personal experience....replaced an exterior light recently on my gaffe - cabled in T+E through the wall, clearly tails left during construction, roughcasters in, light then installed.
Cable looked none the worse for wear, tested out alright and no signs of water penetration despite 40 years of scottish weather pounding away....

 

[Silly Sausage]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Aye OS, this cable below floor level is a Red Herring!

Could be whole shoal of them down there!

 

[HandySparks]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Given the number of garages I've seen with the DNO's cable coming straight up through the concreted floor, I'd be happy to concrete/mortar it in. Anyway, isn't SWA suitable for direct burial in concrete?

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Given the number of garages I've seen with the DNO's cable coming straight up through the concreted floor, I'd be happy to concrete/mortar it in. Anyway, isn't SWA suitable for direct burial in concrete?

"Hello again HandySparks",

This is an example of why I posted my thread on here - to quote You:

`Anyway, isn't SWA suitable for direct burial in concrete?`


I need the answer to this please Members.

These cables were not installed by the Electricity Supplier - they run from the Meter Box into the Flats to the Consumer Units which were installed by an Electrical Contractor / Electrician.

The reason why I am persuing this is that I would NEVER give advice about anything that is not within my knowledge base without finding out the exact details about what I was going to speak about - which is why I `Asked the Experts` Tonight on here.

My Friend thinks that I am the `Font of all knowledge` regarding Building matters - although I might well guess a common sense approach to most things - with Electrical Installations / Electrical Materials I will always ASK Electricians / Electrical Engineers.


As You can see from the various messages Tonight this is NOT a situation where it would be financially justifiable that my Friend should have engaged an Electrician to give an opinion on this point after excavating a Hole adjacent to the cable entry point.

Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

cement, butyle mastic, CT1, proper long life outdoor rated silicon... anything along those lines really, just get the surface clean first.

I'd think there is a potential that this is the cause, and it could have taken this long to show up if the water table has risen / there's been a particularly wet period, or a leaking drain etc.

Often supposedly solid walls actually have a narrow cavity / rubble filled cavity before internal blockwork / cinder block, and any water can run along the cavity, so it's possible that water entering in one place can cause issues further down the wall.

Best to rule it out anyway for the sake of half an hours digging and a couple of quid's worth of sealant.

I'd still rate it as far more likely that the damp is actually down to condensation on a cold spot on the wall if it's not from a leaking drainpipe etc, as even if it did leak in in that way during exceptional rain, I doubt it's going to do it often enough to end up causing damp internally.

"Hello Gavin A",

Thanks very much for your reply and advice about the Mastic.

After the consencus about using Waterproof Cement and `Mastic` I was thinking about finding out about a `Long Life` / Immersible Mastic - I did have a quick look online but I did not find anything where One Tube could be obtained easily / without ordering.

The Damp is definitely not Condensation - not only has my Friend got a `Whole House Ventilation System` with Heat Recovery - but He also has the House Heating at a fairly High temperature setting on the Programmable Room Thermostat - when He was trying to Dry out the Damp patch He was using a Fan Heater aimed at the Wall - this was unsuccessful as the Damp is definitely coming up into the Wall from below the Floorboard level.


The Walls are definitely 9" Solid [plus Plaster above Floor level] with no seperation between the Bricks - I know as I have worked in His House installing Central Heating - and I saw the way that the `Slotted Hole` was cut out in the Wall next door that the Cables go through.
Regards,


Chris

 

[Engineer54]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

The PVC compounds used in modern SWA cable sheathing is pretty much immune to virtually all construction building materials. You can check that with any of the cable manufacturers, who will gladly highlight any chemical or compound that may cause any adverse effects.

I wouldn't use any weatherproofing/waterproofing material that contains Bitumen (especially if in permanent contact with wet or damp surroundings). It's old technology and far better longer lasting compounds are available these days.

Any damp proofing contractor worth his sort, your friend may engage should be able to give guarantees to any solutions and/or materials put forward, ....and don't just invite one to assess the problem, 2 or 3 will give you a far better idea of the underlying problem.... lol!!

 

[chris murphy]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

The PVC compounds used in modern SWA cable sheathing is pretty much immune to virtually all construction building materials. You can check that with any of the cable manufacturers, who will gladly highlight any chemical or compound that may cause any adverse effects.

I wouldn't use any weatherproofing/waterproofing material that contains Bitumen (especially if in permanent contact with wet or damp surroundings). It's old technology and far better longer lasting compounds are available these days.

Any damp proofing contractor worth his sort, your friend may engage should be able to give guarantees to any solutions and/or materials put forward, ....and don't just invite one to assess the problem, 2 or 3 will give you a far better idea of the underlying problem.... lol!!

"Hello Engineer54",

Thanks very much for your reply.

Because the Hole through the Brickwork is not on my Friends property this has now become more complicated than just finding out what to use to fill in the Hole with a compound / material which will not affect the Armoured cables sheathing.

When He contacted the Freeholders of the next door Building / Flats they supposedly sent out a Surveyor to look at the proximity of the Cables entering the Ground and therefore He was able to guess that the Hole through the Brickwork was immediately below that.

His opinion was that the `Hole was too far away from where the Damp is exhibiting on the External / Party wall junction for it to be causing the problem`[from memory less than a Metre].

Now that my Friend has decided that He wants to get the Ground excavated adjacent the cable entry point to look at this / the Brickwork surrounding the Hole the Freeholders are now being `Awkward` about this and have informed Him Today that they will want to investigate this for themselves - something that my Friend tried to get them to do Months ago.


I can obviously understand why the Freeholder wants to do this - they want to try and ensure that they are not held liable for expensive Damp proofing works and they should want the Sealing of the Hole done `Professionally`/ Correctly - but they had previously maintained without ever seeing the Cable entry Hole that it could NOT be causing the Damp to my Friends property.

They have also stated that if the Cable entry Hole is found NOT to be causing the Damp they will want to Invoice Him for these Investigation works and for the reinstatement of the Ground.


My opinion of this is that as they will be finding an underground Hole through the Brickwork into the Building which should NOT have been left like that - He / His Damp Proofing Contractors were entitled to suspect that it might have been the cause of the Damp in my Friends House.


This is now out of my Friends control - He will now NOT be excavating the Ground and Sealing up the Cable entry Hole / having Liquid DPC Injected around the Hole - although obviously this SHOULD be done by the Freeholders Builder / Damp Proofing Contractor.


So Thank You very much for your interest and information - and Thanks very much to all of the Members who responded to Me Yesterday / last Night - I really appreciate it.

Regards,


Chris

 

[DPG]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

I really can't RESIST "typing this post" in this STYLE.

I "apologise" Chris - it's nothing personal. Feel free to take the p*** out of ME also.

And I hope when I have a heating question you will still answer it

PS, it would have had more 'COLOURS' but my editor won't change colour for "SOME" reason.
Daz

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

I really can't RESIST "typing this post" in this STYLE.

I "apologise" Chris - it's nothing personal. Feel free to take the p*** out of ME also.

And I hope when I have a heating question you will still answer it

PS, it would have had more 'COLOURS' but my editor won't change colour for "SOME" reason.
Daz

Oh he will - he's a nice bloke - BUT there's No guarantee that he'll tell you ALL you need to know !! :rofl: