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Silver6003

Hi there I'm working in a pizza take away doing the installation for it . Just recieved The kitchen appliances rundown and now planning my final kitchen sub circuits ...Got 1 coffee /cappacunio Machine where is rated a 3050 watts So divide that by 230v I get 13.2 Amps !! In my book That needs a separate supply and connected to a 20 amp DP switch backed up by a 16 Amp RCBO ...its going to be on a Three Phase board so all my final sub circuits will be protected by RCBO's . This is going to be in the less busy part of shop and atm there's only 1 ring circuit !!!! . However as luck would have it i've a 2.5 cable unused sitting in a single box that I can use to feed said machine ( just need a little diversion/extension of cable ) .
Any thoughts ? Would you guys just Plug it into the the ring ? In my mind that only leaves 19 amps for maximum load on the rest of my ring . This will be run to a high demand with other things like Toasters / kettles /sandwich makers . micro /at least 2 fridges etc
As rule of thumb if any loads exceed 13 amps then a 13 amp cartridge fuse will blow imo So to be safe I'm thinking my idea to be the best working practice . Thoughts ?
Which now brings me to my next point ...I've got an oven at 3100 watts that again exceeds 13 amps that IS SUPPLIED WITH A FLEX AND 13A plug ....Surely this must be wrong !!!! It encourages the general public to just plug it in to a socket and then only affords max 18.5 amps on a ring !!!! Has anyone else come across this ? . I only recently fitted an oven with the same rating 3100w and that stipulated that it had to be on a 16 amp supply So i put it on a DP switch and fed it with 2.5 with an 16 amp RCBO at the board ( it was an old hager board with no rcd ) . Mixed messages or what !!! Anyone else come across this ?
This is going to be a Pizza shop/restaurant. That oven is going to be on constantly during the day/eve ( its not the pizza oven that's 10.1 kw and I've got that under control Rating and cable wise ) Surely that 13 amp fuse in the plug is going to blow far quicker that it really should ? I'm again looking to run a separate supply and have it controlled on a 20 dp switch which in turn will be hard wired into a cooker outlet plate rather than a flex outlet . I would rather over componsate than be under !! Again any thoughts / input or maybe you've come across a similar situation . My real point is if an appliance is rated at over 13 amps then surely it has to be controlled by a 20 amp DP switch rather than a bog standard 13 amp cartridge plug fuse in a plug top plugged into a socket ...On a radial/ring or not . This is going to be a busy working kitchen and all appliances are going to be run flat out . Yes My main incomer will take it its 100 Amp Three phase So that's all covered
Cheers guys
 
Hi - I assume if the manufacturer has supplied an appliance with a 13A plug and fuse, then it is ok to plug it in. If there was doubt whether the appliance was properly approved for use in U.K. then I'd be more cautious. Perhaps the coffee machine peaks at 3050W at 240V? Either way you go, if its already known there are toasters, kettles and sandwich makers and it's a cafe, then I'd be adding ccc where possible.
On the BS1362 fuse, it will run 13A and not blow, and even 20A will take a couple of minutes to set it off.

View attachment 35213
 
Hi there I'm working in a pizza take away doing the installation for it . Just recieved The kitchen appliances rundown and now planning my final kitchen sub circuits ...Got 1 coffee /cappacunio Machine where is rated a 3050 watts So divide that by 230v I get 13.2 Amps !! In my book That needs a separate supply and connected to a 20 amp DP switch backed up by a 16 Amp RCBO ...its going to be on a Three Phase board so all my final sub circuits will be protected by RCBO's . This is going to be in the less busy part of shop and atm there's only 1 ring circuit !!!! . However as luck would have it i've a 2.5 cable unused sitting in a single box that I can use to feed said machine ( just need a little diversion/extension of cable ) .
Any thoughts ? Would you guys just Plug it into the the ring ? In my mind that only leaves 19 amps for maximum load on the rest of my ring . This will be run to a high demand with other things like Toasters / kettles /sandwich makers . micro /at least 2 fridges etc
As rule of thumb if any loads exceed 13 amps then a 13 amp cartridge fuse will blow imo So to be safe I'm thinking my idea to be the best working practice . Thoughts ?
Which now brings me to my next point ...I've got an oven at 3100 watts that again exceeds 13 amps that IS SUPPLIED WITH A FLEX AND 13A plug ....Surely this must be wrong !!!! It encourages the general public to just plug it in to a socket and then only affords max 18.5 amps on a ring !!!! Has anyone else come across this ? . I only recently fitted an oven with the same rating 3100w and that stipulated that it had to be on a 16 amp supply So i put it on a DP switch and fed it with 2.5 with an 16 amp RCBO at the board ( it was an old hager board with no rcd ) . Mixed messages or what !!! Anyone else come across this ?
This is going to be a Pizza shop/restaurant. That oven is going to be on constantly during the day/eve ( its not the pizza oven that's 10.1 kw and I've got that under control Rating and cable wise ) Surely that 13 amp fuse in the plug is going to blow far quicker that it really should ? I'm again looking to run a separate supply and have it controlled on a 20 dp switch which in turn will be hard wired into a cooker outlet plate rather than a flex outlet . I would rather over componsate than be under !! Again any thoughts / input or maybe you've come across a similar situation . My real point is if an appliance is rated at over 13 amps then surely it has to be controlled by a 20 amp DP switch rather than a bog standard 13 amp cartridge plug fuse in a plug top plugged into a socket ...On a radial/ring or not . This is going to be a busy working kitchen and all appliances are going to be run flat out . Yes My main incomer will take it its 100 Amp Three phase So that's all covered
Cheers guys
It's advisable to run anything 3KW and over on a dedicated circuit, if as you say all appliances will be going flat out the applying diversity would be difficult. Bite the bullet and run separate circuits to each of the heavy use appliances, your customer won't think much of you if he has to call you back every so often to attend to tripped RCBOs, thats my opinion anyway, others may differ, but that is what I would plan for.
 
Agreed most heavy load appliances in commercial kitchens have their own radial circuits. The connection of the oven using the 13A plug is satisfactory but it will be dependent on the socket location, keep it away from heat sources such as the oven vents as this could easily affect it's ability to carry maximum loading. I would be tempted to fit a 16A plug as there is no way of knowing the duration of its full loading unless you carry out various cooking operations with it while monitoring the loading. One ring final is light for this type of environment you often have ring finals for specific use eg. chillers, back counter, front counter, back of house etc.. We used to carry out works for a large fast food chain and they rarely used ring finals, the install consisted of multiple radial circuits for the appliances very often supplying a single point, never had overload tripping problems though.
 
It's advisable to run anything 3KW and over on a dedicated circuit, if as you say all appliances will be going flat out the applying diversity would be difficult. Bite the bullet and run separate circuits to each of the heavy use appliances, your customer won't think much of you if he has to call you back every so often to attend to tripped RCBOs, thats my opinion anyway, others may differ, but that is what I would plan for.

Surely, after making a site assessment, then that statement should read "applying diversity would be ill advised"
 
Commercial kitchens can be a nightmare, with additional loads being added afterwards that you will not have envisaged. I would suggest that you will need at least two ring mains for the Kitchen with radial circuits for the larger loads. I once had a Kitchen where there was not a lot of planning being done and things were vague so wired every double socket on a 4.0mm radial protected by 32 amp breaker. Expensive but never had a problem either.
 
Hi there I'm working in a pizza take away doing the installation for it . Just recieved The kitchen appliances rundown and now planning my final kitchen sub circuits ...Got 1 coffee /cappacunio Machine where is rated a 3050 watts So divide that by 230v I get 13.2 Amps !! In my book That needs a separate supply and connected to a 20 amp DP switch backed up by a 16 Amp RCBO ...its going to be on a Three Phase board so all my final sub circuits will be protected by RCBO's . This is going to be in the less busy part of shop and atm there's only 1 ring circuit !!!! . However as luck would have it i've a 2.5 cable unused sitting in a single box that I can use to feed said machine ( just need a little diversion/extension of cable ) .
Any thoughts ? Would you guys just Plug it into the the ring ? In my mind that only leaves 19 amps for maximum load on the rest of my ring . This will be run to a high demand with other things like Toasters / kettles /sandwich makers . micro /at least 2 fridges etc
As rule of thumb if any loads exceed 13 amps then a 13 amp cartridge fuse will blow imo So to be safe I'm thinking my idea to be the best working practice . Thoughts ?
Which now brings me to my next point ...I've got an oven at 3100 watts that again exceeds 13 amps that IS SUPPLIED WITH A FLEX AND 13A plug ....Surely this must be wrong !!!! It encourages the general public to just plug it in to a socket and then only affords max 18.5 amps on a ring !!!! Has anyone else come across this ? . I only recently fitted an oven with the same rating 3100w and that stipulated that it had to be on a 16 amp supply So i put it on a DP switch and fed it with 2.5 with an 16 amp RCBO at the board ( it was an old hager board with no rcd ) . Mixed messages or what !!! Anyone else come across this ?
This is going to be a Pizza shop/restaurant. That oven is going to be on constantly during the day/eve ( its not the pizza oven that's 10.1 kw and I've got that under control Rating and cable wise ) Surely that 13 amp fuse in the plug is going to blow far quicker that it really should ? I'm again looking to run a separate supply and have it controlled on a 20 dp switch which in turn will be hard wired into a cooker outlet plate rather than a flex outlet . I would rather over componsate than be under !! Again any thoughts / input or maybe you've come across a similar situation . My real point is if an appliance is rated at over 13 amps then surely it has to be controlled by a 20 amp DP switch rather than a bog standard 13 amp cartridge plug fuse in a plug top plugged into a socket ...On a radial/ring or not . This is going to be a busy working kitchen and all appliances are going to be run flat out . Yes My main incomer will take it its 100 Amp Three phase So that's all covered
Cheers guys
It's advisable to run anything 3KW and over on a dedicated circuit, if as you say all appliances will be going flat out the applying diversity would be difficult. Bite the bullet and run separate circuits to each of the heavy use appliances, your customer won't think much of you if he has to call you back every so often to attend to tripped RCBOs, thats my opinion anyway, others may differ, but that is what I would plan for.
Surely, after making a site assessment, then that statement should read "applying diversity would be ill advised"
Point taken
 
Peter That's been my thinking all along ...The planning where I am has been non existent. No drawing , no electrical designer ( except me ) No communication, co-ordination or co-operation . The layman has no idea of loads , three phase .rcbo's or anything like that . Also the work that needs to be done to achieve a safe up to regs standard installation . When They saw the cost of 1 rcbo they said "Why so much " I then had to explain Why one uses a RCBO .....When I said " It will stop the whole shop loosing power " Surprisingly they stopped and listened and said " OH yes that's a good idea " I know what all you guys are thinking reading this ....and you're all right ...I'm working for people who have no clue ....Its only their workers who are doing good work that the " builders " are getting away with it . I'm working for these guys who work in the Hasidic Jewish Community here in North London whose contracts are for Hasidic Jews ..... Not easy and I'm reviewing my position after this project ends ( if it ever does )
Thanks all for your insight and input
Silver
 
Working in the Jewish community can be an interesting time, but they're normally good people to work for. Would defo install more than 1 Ring though.
 

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