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[pc1966]

Erm, I think someone got the wrong idea when interpreting the advice with single phase use of swa cores.

Clearly wrong! It is the black that we are told should be G/Y over-sleeved!
(sarcasm, in case anyone takes me seriously)

 

[nicebutdim]

Clearly wrong! It is the black that we are told should be G/Y over-sleeved!
(sarcasm, in case anyone takes me seriously)

Out of interest (to a trainee), what is accepted practice when using phase colours in a single phase installation?

When using 3 core for lighting, clearly it's grey sleeved as neutral and black sleeved as switched live, but what about a submain in SWA?

 

[westward10]

Out of interest (to a trainee), what is accepted practice when using phase colours in a single phase installation?

When using 3 core for lighting, clearly it's grey sleeved as neutral and black sleeved as switched live, but what about a submain in SWA?

Doesn't matter at all provided it is correctly identified BS7671 does not suggest which one is x, y or z.

 

[nicebutdim]

Doesn't matter at all provided it is correctly identified BS7671 does not suggest which one is x, y or z.

I couldn't find a regulation that prohibited the use of any correctly identified conductor, but I don't always find the reg I'm looking for on the first attempt.

The previous posts confused me and had me thinking the issue was which conductor had been used as earth, rather than the fact that blue was used as L3.

 

[davesparks]

Out of interest (to a trainee), what is accepted practice when using phase colours in a single phase installation?

When using 3 core for lighting, clearly it's grey sleeved as neutral and black sleeved as switched live, but what about a submain in SWA?

There is a general convention to use black as CPC and grey as neutral in a 3 core SWA.

People will give you some daft reasons for this, 'de-neutralising' is one nonsense phrase often bandied around, but there is no rule or regulation for this.

The sensible reason to follow this convention is that it uses the same cores as befire the colour change. Core 1 live (red - brown), core 2 CPC (yellow - black), core 3 neutral (blue - grey)

 

[pc1966]

I couldn't find a regulation that prohibited the use of any correctly identified conductor, but I don't always find the reg I'm looking for on the first attempt.

The only prohibited over-sleeving is the use of G/Y cable. That used to be the case for singles but it was ambiguous if it was allowed for multi-core cables, but now with AM2 it has been clarified that you never use G/Y cable for anything other than a CPC.

Which makes a lot of sense!

The previous posts confused me and had me thinking the issue was which conductor had been used as earth, rather than the fact that blue was used as L3.

No it was the fact they already had the 3 phase line colours there, but over-sleeved one of the lines as CPC and failed to over-sleeve the neutral when used as a line.

 

[littlespark]

There is this diagram in the regs that shows how the colours have changed… (not original, I had to Google this)

It’s there in black and white…. Or brown black grey…. Whatever.

In the case of 3ph, no neutral… then the blue, over sleeved in g/y (at both ends) is the only solution… or use 5 core that has a g/y

 

[nicebutdim]

There is this diagram in the regs that shows how the colours have changed… (not original, I had to Google this)

It’s there in black and white…. Or brown black grey…. Whatever.

View attachment 102797

In the case of 3ph, no neutral… then the blue, over sleeved in g/y (at both ends) is the only solution… or use 5 core that has a g/y

A significant amount of the work I do is on 3 phase installations and old colours are a fairly regular occurrence, although only once have I encountered RWB. The comment from @pc1966 made me wonder if a convention existed regarding unacceptable practice where oversleeving is concerned and I lost sight of the fairly obvious blue cable used as L3 (assuming we're looking at the load side of that upsidedown MCB).

 

[pc1966]

People will give you some daft reasons for this, 'de-neutralising' is one nonsense phrase often bandied around, but there is no rule or regulation for this.

That was the reason for my sarcasm. The "black should always be over-sleeved as CPC" and not used as neutral brigade.

 

[nicebutdim]

That was the reason for my sarcasm. The "black should always be over-sleeved as CPC" and not used as neutral brigade.

I like the convention that uses grey as neutral, but simply because the alternative means picking a conductor at random from one job to the next. Where possible, consistency is my friend.

 

[mainline]

Back to the same house which had the satisfactory eicr to do a bit more after kitchen fitters have been.

Above was for washing machine left hanging.

This was Fcu for washing machine upper and lower tags not flattened so was crushing the neutral.
cpc sleeving too short.

Sparky had changed this fcu last year as he said the switch felt funny

 

[timhoward]

This tickled me. I was called because the original guy abandoned the job and has made up endless excuses not to return.
You can imagine it unfold - aargh a joist. Never mind I’ve got a genius idea. Just put the the front on. Ah……

 

[brianmoooore]

This tickled me. I was called because the original guy abandoned the job and has made up endless excuses not to return.
You can imagine it unfold - aargh a joist. Never mind I’ve got a genius idea. Just put the the front on. Ah……
View attachment 102829

Easily fixed with a metal box and a couple of inches of 2 X 1. That's how we retro fitted boxes into a cavity wall before these 'fast fix' abominations came into existence.

 

[littlespark]

Cut the yellow tag down, drill a hole in it and fix in place.
Problem solved.

 

[mainline]

I like the convention that uses grey as neutral, but simply because the alternative means picking a conductor at random from one job to the next. Where possible, consistency is my friend.

I suppose the other option if using swa single phase is to buy it the with the brown, blue, green/yellow colours.

 

[Fazz711]

I suppose the other option if using swa single phase is to buy it the with the brown, blue, green/yellow colours.

I keep asking my boss to buy single phase three core but it almost always arrives three phase colours.
I don't have time to send it back so have to have Good stock of sleaves

 

[mainline]

This tickled me. I was called because the original guy abandoned the job and has made up endless excuses not to return.
You can imagine it unfold - aargh a joist. Never mind I’ve got a genius idea. Just put the the front on. Ah……
View attachment 102829

Wonder how he intended to screw the socket face down.

 

[timhoward]

Wonder how he intended to screw the socket face down.

I’m assuming that is why he stopped and ran.

 

[mainline]

I keep asking my boss to buy single phase three core but it almost always arrives three phase colours.
I don't have time to send it back so have to have Good stock of sleaves

Don't bother with sleeving, just paint it

 

[mainline]

Don't bother with sleeving, just paint it

I remember a few years ago after dropping a light switch and seeing the black S/L with about 2 inches of red on the end and thinking that looks very neat as the sleeve was the same diameter as the black.
It was only when I started to push the switch back on and saw the copper exposed between the sleeve that i realised what they had done.

About 20 light switches had to come off to be sorted.