elctric shock

[momin]

hi everybody. I'm new, so please excuse me if i do any thing wrong. My daughter had electric shock in the shower. I switched off the consumer unit., but it was still alive. so we had to pull her off the chrome hose which she was grabbing. we had a shared loop from our next door neighbour. He had some work done a few times previously a year ago. There was no marking on his workers van. we called the ambulance and she was taken to hospital. the electricity board was also called. they took out the main 60 amps fuse, but the radiators and pipes were still alive. he called in more senior electrician from the board. they too had never ever come across such a situation. the managers were called in as well. my loop was coming from next door. they went in. as soon as they put their meter to test, there was a big bang and a flash. when asked, what happened, the electricians said that my earth cable was hanging loose. the board , on our insistence, wrote to the neighbour to assist them in their investigations and to name the person who carried out his work. He has not responded. it is 6 months now. the board says they do NOT have any remit or power to force him. So what do i do now. Please, please advise asap.

 

[ecclescake]

This does not make sense. How did he wire your shower into next doors cu. You must owe him a few quid for free showers.

 

[Guest123]

Think he means the fault was coming from next door, but with no earthing or bonding at his property the fault was just sitting on the pipework????

 

[Yooj]

Yes, think Lenny is right...it is likely that there was a fault to the pipework originating from the neighbours electric supply, and with the poor main earth, then this meant that there was a large floating potential on the pipework in the house. Chances are that it was a plastic main water pipe coming into the house and no decent earth path.

Probably need to know the earthing type as this has implications...as does the 'Earth Cable Hanging Loose', i.e. which earth cable...does it mean, Main Earth from MET to CCU, earth from supply head (if TNS/TNCS) to MET, or Main bonding, or CPC to shower circuit...Difficult to say.

So many possibilities, I think that there are too many to describe.

Momin...my suggestion is to call your local authority building control, ask them to recommend an Electrician (preferably whom they use for inspection and testing) and get said electrician in to perform what is called a 'Periodic Inspection and Test'. They basically will inspect and test your whole electrical installation. This will result in a report which should initially give you an understanding of what happened and how to solve it.

Did the electricians who told you the earth was hanging loose, firstly reconnect the earth, and also tell you whether your electrical installation was safe for continued use?

Momin...I hope your daughter is ok.

Have a read of this link: http://www.electriciansforums.net/electrical-forum-general-electrical-forum/11477-electric-shock-shower.html as it was a discussion about some of the causes of a shock in the shower...It is just for some background as to what to expect in terms of terminology used etc.

Yooj

 

[Notsosmart]

Momin;
I'm suprised the Electricity board have not notified this to the HSE is this because they are worried that they may be deemed liable do you think? I would do a little cage rattling if I were you, demand to know how (or indeed if) they have resolved the situation.
If your daughter was injured like this within a work environment then her injuries would be notifiable & a serious investigation would be carried out.
As the electricity board have seemed to have washed their hands Perhaps you need to contact the HSE yourself.

As Yooj has suggested you need a qualified electrician with test & Inspecting experience to undertake a Periodic inspection as soon as possible.

Good luck I hope your daughter has fully recovered.

 

[Myles]

To be honest Momin, if it was MY daughter....and the neighbour refused to name the person who could have killed her... I would start a war.

edit...Perhaps talk to neighbour again and ask directly, pointing out that a life was nearly taken and whomever undertook the work needs to be checked out. If its a cowboy they can be prosecuted. If the neighbour fails to accept this reasonable and responsible course then its neighbour war time. Also...there should be a certificate for the work that was done with a signiture on it.

 

[kung]

Think as said a periodic report is needed here if the neybour wont help even with whats happend id say their covering someone they know ! id also say as said after the periodic contact Local area building control and it wouldnt hurt to contact HSE as well.
Hope your daughter is also ok.
Regards
Kung.

 

[Mark.W]

Sorry to hear about your daughter mate.

He might not want to name the electrician because there was no electrician. DIY job maybe!

 

[Guest123]

He might not want to name the electrician because there was no electrician. DIY job maybe!

I thought that too.

 

[ian.settle1]

He might not want to name the electrician because there was no electrician. DIY job maybe!

I would say the same as with not telling you who it was he probabily not told the LABC he has done any electrical work eg changing CU, kitchen, bathroom etc.

 

[Des 56]

You have a possible life threatening situation and many un answered questions
A realistic assessment could only be made at the installation,so employ a competent electrician who can test the installation for you



With the possibility that another injury could occur because the situation remains,I would strongly suggest that an earth spike be fitted and a cable installed from the bathroom pipes(which could be cross bonded) to this earth spike even if it was to be just a temporary measure on your part

It may result in your neighbour having problems with loss of his supply through earthing issues but your daughter would be better protected

Dont permit this situation to remain


I cant understand why your earth cable(hanging loose) would be in next door

 

[momin]

thanks . the board tested my house. every thing was ok. Kung-----what is periodic report and who issues it. Mark-------the neighbour did have somebody working there prior to the incident. I saw it my self about 3 times........the neighbor has refused to co operate. he is double faced and a rat. since the incident he does not speak to me and avoids me all the time. He has not replied to the letter the board sent him sometime back.

You have a possible life threatening situation and many un answered questions
A realistic assessment could only be made at the installation,so employ a competent electrician who can test the installation for you



With the possibility that another injury could occur because the situation remains,I would strongly suggest that an earth spike be fitted and a cable installed from the bathroom pipes(which could be cross bonded) to this earth spike even if it was to be just a temporary measure on your part

It may result in your neighbour having problems with loss of his supply through earthing issues but your daughter would be better protected

Dont permit this situation to remain


I cant understand why your earth cable(hanging loose) would be in next door

MY earth was next door because it was a loop. i.e. the service cable went there first and then to my house. all the houses in the street are the same ONE cable sharinr 2 houses.

 

[ghost]

This type of tale makes my blood boil. Why oh why do incompetant people play with electricity??? Momin, I hope your daughter has recovered from her ordeal, I couldn't even begin to think it was my little girl in the shower taking a belt like that. I really would recommend having a periodic inspection carried out by a good qualified spark, even just to put your mind at rest. I'm sure somebody on here would be somewhere near you to offer some advice.

 

[oldtimer]

This sounds like something I highlighted about a month ago with a terraced house when the 3 phase supply went into my brother inlaws house and then it sub divided and spured off to the other houses meaning he had the main earth and if it was disconnected then the other houses would have to depend on their water and gas pipes ? So it looks like this guy lives in a semi and the guy next door disconnected his earth for maybe a ELI test but forgot to connect it back in so what about water and gas well if both are plastic then you have the perfect storm so to speak if next door has an earth fault then no wonder he is keeping stuem. Anyway hope your dot is feeling better and me thinks you have more to celibrate this christmas

 

[momin]

This type of tale makes my blood boil. Why oh why do incompetant people play with electricity??? Momin, I hope your daughter has recovered from her ordeal, I couldn't even begin to think it was my little girl in the shower taking a belt like that. I really would recommend having a periodic inspection carried out by a good qualified spark, even just to put your mind at rest. I'm sure somebody on here would be somewhere near you to offer some advice.

My blood also boils when people do not read and properly understand the message. I did not play with the electricity. the fault was in the loop from next door. he had electricians working there, not me. also the electricity board did a very very thorough check of my house. every thing was ok.

 

[Notsosmart]

thanks . the board tested my house. every thing was ok. Kung-----what is periodic report and who issues it..

As Yooj & I stated this is a test & inspection report undertaken (periodically ~ in the case of domestic up to every 10 years) by a competent, experienced & qualified (ask for city & guilds 2391) electrician.
You state that the electricity board have checked your property & reported it ok (?) Did they issue an official report showing tests they have undertaken & a schedule of results?

Mark-------the neighbour did have somebody working there prior to the incident. I saw it my self about 3 times........the neighbor has refused to co operate. he is double faced and a rat. since the incident he does not speak to me and avoids me all the time. He has not replied to the letter the board sent him sometime back.

Time to get heavy I think, have you contacted an outside body like the HSE or maybe a solicitor for advice?

 

[ghost]

My blood also boils when people do not read and properly understand the message. I did not play with the electricity. the fault was in the loop from next door. he had electricians working there, not me. also the electricity board did a very very thorough check of my house. every thing was ok.

I wasn't implying you played with electricity mate, I was on about your neighbours so called sparks. I wasn't slating you at all, I was quite concerned about you. Maybe you should read my message more carefully before slating me.
Regards.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I will just stick my oar in to say that, there is no way I would be satisfied as the situation stands.

It is not acceptable that your neighbor has the ability to cause electric shocks to happen in your house. especially if you are not on speaking terms with him to be assured of the soundness of his installation.

So what are your options?

• Earth spike, ie make your installation a TT one (not my favorite option)
• RCD fuseboard ( I would be fitting one of these at the moment in any case, as they limit the shock current to 30ma what ever the earthing situation is)
• Separate connection to the DNO's earthed sheath that is not in next doors property and to which you have access to check.

Other more off the wall ones.

• Call one of the free "had an accident not your fault" companys and see if they think you have a case (not for the money, but for the identity of the person culpable under law.
• Do the same if you have free legal advice bundled with your home insurance (lots of policys do as standard)
• What I would do is probably end up being arrested for disorder, as I would not accept being ignored by someone who has nearly caused the death of my child and won't give me an account or an apology for his/her actions.

Personally I think a PIR would tell what you already know, which is your installation is basically sound and the problem lies in the earthing arrangements. The DNO have already confirmed this after all.

I hope this has been useful but more so that your daughter is OK now?

Warmest Regards

Martin

 

[momin]

I wasn't implying you played with electricity mate, I was on about your neighbours so called sparks. I wasn't slating you at all, I was quite concerned about you. Maybe you should read my message more carefully before slating me.
Regards.

sorry mate. Nothing personal. this matter has gone off track. all i wanted to know was that the board has not done anything further to pin point the cause of fault. and the neighbor is uncooperative. What sould i do next.

I wasn't implying you played with electricity mate, I was on about your neighbours so called sparks. I wasn't slating you at all, I was quite concerned about you. Maybe you should read my message more carefully before slating me.
Regards.

we now have an independent supply line given by the electricity board. we also have full board report on the work and inspection they had done. What we don't know from them is the actual cause of the fault. the ele. board says 2 possibilities. (1) either the underground cable or (2) the fault in in neighbor's house because of the earth cable tangling loose. This means his electrician did not reconnect our earth cable whist working there. The ele. board wrote him to name the electrician who done the unproffesional and dangerous work. the neighbour has refused. he knows he is at fault. so what can I do to go further. Its a dead lock. And mates my dot is ok. thanks for your concern.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

See my suggestions above